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Old 01-06-2011, 01:24 PM   #43
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OF - the brain for the smart wheel I believe is behind the PS dash. My guess is some lose wires or ones not connected. It's should be an easy fix. We can take a look at QZ if your there, or you can do it. It's supposed to work, and Cummins labor rate is rich, so if you want to try we can look at it. I have some documentation on how the proper way to taker the steering cover off the wheel in all the P/W I carry I think, or if we are lucky, I have the original e-mail, which I think I forwarded to E-Mike for the Tech Library.

FWIW#1 – my remote door lock would not work at all, so when I was in there trying to figure out how to fix the HH issue, I found the antenna wire and spread it out and then tied it up, and it now works fine, like it should have when it was assembled.

Air Pressure Issue - I am not an expert on this system by any means, Dale G, and EM are more knowledgeable about it, but, based on your description, there might be an o-ring which has hardened and when cold does not seal. It might be on the brake assembly, but that system is held open by air pressure (brake not engaged) and kept engaged by a huge spring deal inside a can, which should not be opened unless you’re qualified. I would look around the brake when cold, coach up high enough and secured so it won't move, and cycle the brake and see if you can find where it dumps the air. Somewhere in that assembly is the culprit o-ring. It might be the compressor, and it also might be related to cold/hot operation, but my guess is something like a hard o-ring/gasket which does not seal when cold. Something in that assembly opens up to dump the air, and does not reseal correctly based on what you said. Also if I remember my CDL instruction, the brake won't release until the AP in the system is at/above 60psi, as AP compresses the spring in the brake can. So if you lose pressure it's designed to engage and stop the vehicle, and what a ride it would be. That is why you get a low air-pressure alarm when it's below 60PSI. If you have been dealing with this issue 4 four years, then the issue might be the compressor as you think, and it's been faulty since built as I understand you.

FWIW#2 - the rubber seals on the bottom of our slides are soft rubber, and where the brackets are which hold the slide assembly are located stick down more than the smooth bottom of the slide. Normally when warm they readily conform to the bottom of the housing when the slide is extended, except when cold outside, they just sit there and don't seal until it warms up during the day. We can see light at the bottom of the kitchen slide when we put the slide out when it's cold outside. I made some foam blocks to put in there when it’s cold to stop the cold air from coming in. So something similar is happening to the parking brake assembly when its cold I think.
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:02 PM   #44
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Old Rv'er,

I plan to be at Quartzite. The cruise not going to fast idle is something that would be nice, but I have got by on it for 4 years without missing it. As I said, it doesn't see to make much difference when the engine is cold whether it's at fast idle or not, which is another reason why suspect the compressor. If we get a chance, maybe we can find a loose wire or connection. I have not found one yet, and given that some other '06's don't have it either, it makes me wonder if it was ever hooked up.

Our brake won't fully release until we're above 60 psi, so we're in line with that. I have not been looked to see where the brake dumps air when releasing; it uses air to actuate the brake when applied, and that is the issue; it applies, then air pressure builds up slowly when cold and we can't see any leaks on the parking brake. But it could still be the brake rather than the compressor. The fact only the engine has to be warm, and the brake actuator is a ways from the engine, makes me think it's the compressor.

Anyway, keep the ideas coming. I will look some more at the brake actuator and see what else might be going on. Haven't found it there yet, but it could still be there.
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Old 01-09-2011, 11:55 PM   #45
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OF:

I think you may be missing part of Monty's point on the air use. The parking brake uses air to disengage, not to engage. The drop in pressure happens when the air is allowed into the brake drum to release the brake. When you set the brake, the air supply is cut off, released, and the spring engages the brake. This could still coincide with what you are seeing on the pressure gauge. The sudden need for air to disengage the brake would drop the overall system pressure.

BTW, on the idle speed issue, I have an idle speed switch below the transmission shift pad, and also can use the cruise control by hitting "on/off" followed by "res". Mine was manufactured in May of 2002.
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:12 AM   #46
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Takepride,

I didn't state my comment correctly. I know it's spring loaded on and air releases it. I meant to say when I apply the air to release the brake, it uses a lot of air, dropping it down to 60 psi, and then it builds back slowly when the engine's cold. If I put the brake on, let the warning light/horn go off, and then take the brake off, the air drops again and starts building up slowly. This is why I was having the problem of stopping/starting over and over again for 10-15 minutes or so when cold. I kept putting the brake on and off. I learned from the air gauge to use the foot brake and not the parking brake once I release the parking brake, to let the air build up. That's a temporary fix until the compressor is changed.

When the engine gets up to 140 degrees or so, or the outside air temperature is warmer, the air builds a lot more quickly when the parking brake is released and I have no issues.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:40 PM   #47
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If this is a compressor problem, its a weird one, but you might be able to solve it by adding a check valve in line after the compressor but before the brake & air tank. In fact, this would probably isolate it to the compressor (tho the air dryer might still be in play?).
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Old 01-17-2011, 09:04 PM   #48
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But then why does this occur when the ambient temperature and engine temperature are both cold, but not when it's above 50 degrees or so? That's what we can't figure out, especially since we looked at the air dyer last month in Colton and it appeared to be OK, but then it had only been driven about 2000 miles since May. I'm still thinking oil is leaking past the rings/seals in the compressor when cold, which is why the air dryer loaded up with oil before I changed it in May, and along with that oil comes reduced air volume.

But, your idea of the check valve has a lot of merit. I still think I want a new compressor before my engine goes off Cummins warranty in May and I have to rely on my extended warranty.
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Old 01-18-2011, 06:58 AM   #49
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Get it checked out while it is under warranty..... I had to replace mine last summer after the crankshaft snapped in two and left me along the highway. $1800.00 later i was on the road again to keep it short.
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Old 01-26-2011, 02:32 PM   #50
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After working on a friend's 09, on my back, in the dust, at q-site yesterday, I think there is a potential regulator/compressor problem with these newer coaches that causes the compressor to run at very high pressure. As a result, the 175 psi "safety" valve on the air drier is continually opening and the compressor is running full time. This may account for excessive oil bypass in the compressor[caught in the drier]. Conversely, if you are stuck somewhere with low air pressure [ie, cant raise suspension bags], gentle tapping on the compressor and regulator housing with a wrench may free the "stuck" regulator value and allow you to air up until you can get to Cummins. Thanks goes to Chet on the "old mechanics" tip to free stuck air regulators.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:09 PM   #51
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Old Scout:

I don't have the same problem. First, I put an air gauge on the system and mine causes the spitter valve to release at 120 psi so that I never get above that in the system. Second, I have replaced the regulator in December and it didn't make a difference. The old regulator we tore apart and it looked fine as well. I agree if your friend's regulator is stuck tapping on it with a wrench can help it free up.

I believe the oil bypass I am getting in the air dryer is due to an issue with the seals/rings on the compressor piston not expanding enough when the compressor is cold. Once I'm warming up, the low air pressure issue goes away. Until it warms up, or I really rev the engine (like to 1250 RPM or so), the pressure is slow to build above 60 psi, and that keeps the low air suspension warning on. Now if you're actually building 175 psi or so you could be driving oil into the air dryer.

The best way to test this issue is to put a simple $8 air gauge on your friend's coach at the air suspension dump location (mine is in the back passenger side compartment) and watch it as I have. If the air compressor is building pressure to 175 psi it will show on the gauge. My spitter valve won't let it get above 120 psi. If it's not building pressure because the spitter valve is open too much, it will also show you that. It takes about 80 psi to get past the low air suspension warning and about 120 to trip the spitter.

Could be the spitter valve on the air dryer is opening too quickly and not letting the air build up -- that's a very simple fix with a new spitter valve, and they don't cost very much. Regulators don't cost much, either, and they're fairly easy to replace.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:12 AM   #52
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In this case, spitter valve is not the issue, also not clear when 175 psi pressures are being obtained--suspect at higher rpm. Also believe spitter valve is controlled by third line from reg to air drier when max set pressure of 135 is obtained. Valve in question is the high pressure dump valve--set at 175 psi. Evidence of holes cut in the foam sleeve covering the valve suggests this dump valve is going off regularly. Not sure if your low pressure and other "high" pressure/oil bypass issues are even related but suspect there are some underlying root causes here.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:41 PM   #53
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O.F.- per Actia, the actual alarm level for Low Air Suspension is < 65 psi.
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Old 01-27-2011, 09:42 PM   #54
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EM - 65 psi tracks with my gauge and and my experience. Especially this morning, when I had the most miserable experience so far with this issue.

We RON'd at Van Horn Texas, and were getting ready to leave this morning on our way to Austin, TX, at 7:30 am and it was 28 degrees outside air temperature. Very dry/very low humidity. We spent about 35 minutes building enough air pressure to get past 65 psi and keep the low air warning light going off. Not a good way to impress neighboring campers, so we drove toward the freeway and kept stopping to check it.

I now have some more new learnings. The air compressor built to 120 psi and kicked off the spitter valve. I had my wife stay in the coach and keep the engine idling at 1000 to 1200 RPM since my CC fast idle has never worked, while I watched my air gauge. She released the parking brake and the air pressure dropped to about 45 psi and wouldn't go up. I tried my previous idea of not reapplying the parking brake and trying to get the pressure to build, and it wouldn't budge from 45 psi. I then had her keep moving the coach and I walked along side and it still would not build up.

This went on for about 25 minutes or so -- stop, start, check pressure, etc., and it wouldn't build up, nor clear the warning alarm. Also the parking brake light would not go off, even though the brake button was pushed in. After this extended period, I decide to reapply the parking brake, wait until the alarm went off, and start moving. Only took two trys and the parking brake light finally went off, the air was up to 65 psi+, and we were moving with no problems. Usually I have done multiple tries and got nowhere. I'm no convinced not retrying periodically is not a good idea, to get the brake to stay off.

So here's my new theory on this issue when it's cold outside -- the compressor actually builds air after the air bags fill up, the amount of air needed to put on the parking brake drops air pressure to 45 psi as shown on the gauge or some range below the 65 needed to get the alarm to go off, and somewhere between the compressor and the parking brake actuator system, enough air is not present to keep the parking brake fully off. (You can drive it and it acts as no brake is on, but the brake warning light is still there and the alarm is on), and after a period of warm up, (in this case 180 degrees on engine coolant plus extra time) enough air is present to keep the parking brake fully off and also build above the 65 psi needed to keep the alarm off.

So, before we replace the compressor since it builds air when cold to 120 psi relatively quickly, but can't keep it there when the parking brake is released, we may have an issue with air leak between it and the parking brake actuator, until everything gets warm.

Those of you who know the parking brake manufacturer (thought it was Haldex/Bendix) and part number for the parking brake, I would appreciate knowing this information. Also, if you have a good understanding of how the air actually engages in the parking brake actuator and if there's a prime spot for a leak, please let me know.

I'm think I may replace the parking brake actuator here in the Austin/San Antonio area if I can find the part number, who can get the part and who can replace it, to eliminate the last possibility before we replace the compressor.

Ideas on repair facility and part number?

Thanks --
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Old 01-28-2011, 04:34 PM   #55
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A followup to this message. I have found the part number. On a previous post on this actuator, the WRV part number and the Haldex part number were reversed. It was also stated it's no longer made. I learned today it is an active part number in Haldex's system, and the correct part number is KSHR2PT03A00018.

I also found a repair shop close to where I'm staying in Georgetown, TX, and got a good look at the issue with some people that I think are more knowledgeable on this. Of course, at 70 degrees, I had no problem building air pressure and releasing the parking brake.

We're going to replace the actuator anyway, to keep eliminating issues, but also think it may be the quick release valve between the air dryer and the air tank. So once the coach is up on the rack, we will change that as well. The techs are going to try to figure out a way to drain the air tank and make sure there's no issue with moisture/oil in the tank. Their theory is there's moisture/oil in the quick release valve giving me the issue when it's cold.

I've had a bunch of theories and they all seem plausible, but I'm now in the mode of replacing everything but the compressor until we figure out what this problem really is. Only have those two parts to replace and we will be at the point of replacing the compressor if it's not solved.
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Old 01-28-2011, 06:07 PM   #56
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Bill- we are obviously in need of an air schematic given yours and Old Scout's experiences in the last few days (yours a bit longer). If you can scratch together what you know, scan & email it to me, I'll do a formal drawing for the Tech Library w/part #'s. I believe we have the park brake valve# (knob) somewhere, now the actuator, I can pull the front air bag#'s pretty easily. We have the air horn solenoid, probably ride height adjusters and maybe also air release valves if I do enough searches.

Another good reason to buy that boroscope I've always wanted.
If anybody has rear air bag#'s let us know.
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