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Old 03-19-2015, 11:30 PM   #15
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Hello Ken, I connected the "T" for the hydraulic line above the rear axel on the drivers side in the frame. Because the Alpine has ABS there are two hydraluc lines for the rear brakes. One for left one for right side. Tap into easiest to access.

For the air you will see an air line on the passenger side so you can manually dump or fill the air system on the Alpine. I taped into that air line used a "T" fitting an ran the air line to the proportioning valve. This line will always have air pressure unless air system is empty. This was easy because the air lines are an abs dot approved plastic air lines and push on fittings.

I hope this helps.
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Old 03-20-2015, 12:20 AM   #16
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Ken L.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Fernandez View Post
Hello Ken, I connected the "T" for the hydraulic line above the rear axel on the drivers side in the frame. Because the Alpine has ABS there are two hydraluc lines for the rear brakes. One for left one for right side. Tap into easiest to access.

For the air you will see an air line on the passenger side so you can manually dump or fill the air system on the Alpine. I taped into that air line used a "T" fitting an ran the air line to the proportioning valve. This line will always have air pressure unless air system is empty. This was easy because the air lines are an abs dot approved plastic air lines and push on fittings.

I hope this helps.
Dave you are savior. As I see it that will WORK. Do you know anything about those "air manifolds" on the leveling system? If those are "system Air pressure" then I have an accessible port to use for the proportioning valve. Messing with the Hydraulic Brakes is a bit scary. If I mess it up I can't get the coach off this hill I live on. I really want to THANK you for your help on this project. Ken

y.
valve
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Old 03-20-2015, 09:00 AM   #17
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Ken L. I use the US Gear brake on both of my tow vehicles. It includes a vac pump that is connected to the master cylinder of the towd. I think it is a nice compact system. That way you don't have to mess with other vehicle connections.

Since 2009 you did not have to leave the key in the ignition to unlock the steering wheel. On my 2008 I have to do that. The US Gear setup includes a charge wire, which keeps the battery up on the Jeep.

Unified Tow Brake
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:19 AM   #18
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Old Scout, I see you on line, and that you have an 03 alpine as I do. I like the idea of the Master Cylinder upgrade and would like to do it in conjunction with the installation of the Proportioning Valve for my tow brake installation. That way I can change ALL the Fluid in the system at the same time. OK, my question is, do you know if these Alpines have a 50/50 split brake system or a 60/40 split [60% front and 40% rear]? The question came up while talking with Roadmaster, they asked, and said "if it is a 60/40 split then I should connect to the FRONT brake system. Well I don't know, and find that Bendix makes those MC's in every configuration.
The "Ford" configuration is a 60/40 split, while the "GM" is a 50/50. You can get the MC with a 2" bore or 1-3/4" bore, and the brake line fitting sizes seem to change from one to another? On my MC. I have a 9/16" and a 7/16" threaded port for the 1/4" brake lines, they have just put a different adapter in the MC. to connect the 1/4" brake lines that have 9/16" wrench size nuts on them each of them. So, connecting to the front or the rear might make a difference in the tow brake issue, but IT WILL make a difference in the correct ordering of the Master Cylinder. I sure wish I knew more about this. My brakes work fairly well, I just think it might be time for an upgrade, the coach is 12years old after all. Any one have any answers? Ken
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Old 03-22-2015, 12:29 PM   #19
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Ken, I dont have any information on the front vs rear split for the 03 nor do I recall this issue coming up with regard to the MC upgrade for 04 and newer coaches. My overall experience over the years with MCs on Alpines includes several non-wheels off and one wheels off brake brake flushes; and two MC upgrades on two different 06 Alpines. Both of the upgrades involved "lower prices" MCs off Ebay. In both cases, the MCs appeared to be new and were an identical replacement for the OEM MC, save for the piston size and a slightly smaller reservoir on the new 1 3/4" MCs.

Both EBay orders were based on the recommended part number found in the extensive MC upgrade thread on this forum. So far, I have not received any negative feedback from either of the 06 owners regarding the new MCs. Interesting that you caught the port size differences on both the OEM and the new 1 3/4" MCs. I didnt stumble across that fact until I had already fabricated my bench bleed rig for the new MCs. Keep us posted on your efforts....
PS--I know of atleast one Alpine owner [04] who successfully had an air driven aux brake system installed. Pretty sure it was done by a 3rd party though, so no feed back on the "how to."
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Old 03-22-2015, 01:32 PM   #20
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I have not needed to do any work on the air system so I have not done any research on the air manifolds for the suspension. I am planning to change the air suspension bags in the next year or two before we go to Alaska. Once I do that, I will have a lot more info on the manifolds.

Tapping into the hydraulics is not that hard. On the frame rail to the rear axle is where the steel line and the flex line connect and you place a T at that point. Attach the proportioning valve to the T and Bleed the brakes on that side and it will work fine. You only need to bleed the one side because the rear calipers are feed separately because of the ABS system that why you will see two steel and two flexible lines to the rear axle calibers.
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Old 03-22-2015, 11:55 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken L. View Post
Old Scout, I see you on line, and that you have an 03 alpine as I do. I like the idea of the Master Cylinder upgrade and would like to do it in conjunction with the installation of the Proportioning Valve for my tow brake installation. That way I can change ALL the Fluid in the system at the same time. OK, my question is, do you know if these Alpines have a 50/50 split brake system or a 60/40 split [60% front and 40% rear]? The question came up while talking with Roadmaster, they asked, and said "if it is a 60/40 split then I should connect to the FRONT brake system. Well I don't know, and find that Bendix makes those MC's in every configuration.
The "Ford" configuration is a 60/40 split, while the "GM" is a 50/50. You can get the MC with a 2" bore or 1-3/4" bore, and the brake line fitting sizes seem to change from one to another? On my MC. I have a 9/16" and a 7/16" threaded port for the 1/4" brake lines, they have just put a different adapter in the MC. to connect the 1/4" brake lines that have 9/16" wrench size nuts on them each of them. So, connecting to the front or the rear might make a difference in the tow brake issue, but IT WILL make a difference in the correct ordering of the Master Cylinder. I sure wish I knew more about this. My brakes work fairly well, I just think it might be time for an upgrade, the coach is 12years old after all. Any one have any answers? Ken
To answer your 60/40 split question. The bore is stepped, that is, it is two bore diameters. somewhat smaller on the rear for more pressure to the rear. (nearly 20k weight on back axle).

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Old 04-01-2015, 09:22 PM   #22
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OK! I have changed the MC. to 1-3/4" bore. New from L&M Friction Materials in Riverside. As I understand it Diesel Pushers use 50;50 split MC. To facilitate using the existing bracket with a little modification, I installed two brake tees one in each line to the rear wheels at the flex connection to the steel lines. I plugged one and piped the other to the Proportioning Valve for the Toad. After vacuuming the system three times I finally got good pedal. The ABS unit is passive so you don't have to do anything to it as you Bleed the brakes. Today I took it on a test ride around the lake to check the brake action, I like it. The pedal is a little closer to the floor than before, but real solid and a nice response from the brakes. So I just want to report and THANK You for your participation on this project. Mike F. it was a pleasure talking with you at the FMCA rally this last Saturday. One plus gallon of brake fluid to bleed the entire system with the wheels off, All calipers inside and out. By the way, the Air Manifold on the leveling system had two extra ports so I picked up the air at that point. It is 120# air, just make sure you DUMP the air bags before entering the system there. All's well that ends well. Ken
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Old 04-02-2015, 11:21 AM   #23
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Ken, great feedback on the M/C upgrade. Agree there have been times when a little extra braking power would be good for my 03. After doing a couple upgrades on 06s, the process is fairly straight-forward--notwithstanding the remote reservoir issues for the 03s and earlier.

Interesting comments on front vs rear proportioning--I took one of the 2" OEM M/Cs a part to see how they worked. Both pistons were the same diameter but the rear piston had a smaller inside diameter for the shaft that connected the two plunger/gasket faces. Not much on math, but figured the same outside bore diameter would result in the same proportion while the different shaft diameter would provide more fluid volume... Be curious so hear from you again once you have a few more miles on the new M/C.....
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Old 05-29-2015, 08:45 AM   #24
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03 40' Alpine Coach breaks

[QUOTE=Dave Fernandez;2470251] Hello & Welcome Ken to IRV2 and to the Alpine Coach Forum.



[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3][COLOR=Navy]If your 2003 Alpine Brake Pedal goes through the Floor, it does not need the updated Master Cylinder.

I have the pedal coming up through the floor. We are traveling in western CO when pedal goes to floor on first push, little stopping. After a couple of pumps will act normal. Any ideas?

This is a new coach for us. Purchased in Feb.
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:06 AM   #25
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I had this happen on my 03 a couple of years ago while driving in heavy stop-go traffic for several hours--suspect the brakes had gotten pretty hot due high ambient temps and constant breaking for traffic. Upon closer inspection, couldnt find anything wrong but decided to slightly over fill the brake reservoir to ensure MC was getting continuous supply of fluid. Problem has not re-ocurred, but at the time it was un-nerving to say the least....
This incident occurred shortly after flushing the brake fluid--non-wheels off. I was pretty particular about not getting any air in the lines but I may have. If the coach is new to you, I would recomment a full, wheels-off brake fluid flush to set a baseline for future maintenance--flush every 3-4 years. Also recommend having the engine [fan, brake, steering] hydraulic fluid [ATF-III] changed so both fluids are baselined together......
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Old 05-29-2015, 09:54 AM   #26
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To add to Old Scout's good advice, be sure to change the three filters in the hydraulic reservoir. Heck, they could be 10+ years old, as it is an often neglected maintenance item. Here is the filter number, again you need 3: Wix 57317
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Old 05-29-2015, 03:07 PM   #27
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PSS--cross ref for Cummins/Fleetguard is Nelson 84220A. Prices vary from Cummins to Cummins but should be about $8 each--they come in a std box of 6 filters so you get enough for two changes......
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Old 01-24-2016, 01:39 PM   #28
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To all concerned here. I have used the coach the rest of the year, pulling the new wrangler. Everything works as planed, the brakes are GOOD and I am glad I did it.
I want to thank everyone who helped me with this project. This Forum is a God-send
to us who think Do it Yourself is the way to go. It certainly is the CHEAPEST way to go. So THANK YOU ALL! Ken
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