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Old 01-24-2016, 08:01 PM   #29
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Ken, great feedback on the M/C upgrade. Agree there have been times when a little extra braking power would be good for my 03. After doing a couple upgrades on 06s, the process is fairly straight-forward--notwithstanding the remote reservoir issues for the 03s and earlier.

Interesting comments on front vs rear proportioning--I took one of the 2" OEM M/Cs a part to see how they worked. Both pistons were the same diameter but the rear piston had a smaller inside diameter for the shaft that connected the two plunger/gasket faces. Not much on math, but figured the same outside bore diameter would result in the same proportion while the different shaft diameter would provide more fluid volume... Be curious so hear from you again once you have a few more miles on the new M/C.....
Are you saying that the bore is 2" for both the front and rear?

beagle
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Old 01-29-2016, 06:29 PM   #30
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Are you saying that the bore is 2" for both the front and rear?

beagle
I really do not understand what you found out when you disassembled the M/C.

beagle
happy owner of 2015 Prism
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:44 PM   #31
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Beagle--its been awhile since I tore one of these apart--probably still have the pieces in my metal junk pile. Anyway, as I recall, the internal guts of the MC consisted of two chambers with a two ended piston [eg two sets of o-rings], both piston ends were of equal diameter, and travelled an equal distance. Not real knowledged about fluid dynamics but it was not obvious to me how the two similar chambers produced different pressures. If the front axle is different from the rear, could there be proportional valving elsewhere in the system?
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:08 PM   #32
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Beagle--its been awhile since I tore one of these apart--probably still have the pieces in my metal junk pile. Anyway, as I recall, the internal guts of the MC consisted of two chambers with a two ended piston [eg two sets of o-rings], both piston ends were of equal diameter, and travelled an equal distance. Not real knowledged about fluid dynamics but it was not obvious to me how the two similar chambers produced different pressures. If the front axle is different from the rear, could there be proportional valving elsewhere in the system?
Old Scout - I think you have this right. I'm not sure how the Peak chassis hydraulic brake system is set up, but I'm well versed in automotive applications. Typically you'll find a dual circuit with a proportioning valve, nominally it's usually around 70% front, 30% rear. On German cars a dual diagonal circuit is usually found where the left front and right rear make up one circuit and the right front and left rear the other. This allows more braking control if one circuit fails.
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:15 PM   #33
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PS--the Alpine MC has an electrical connections but understood it was probably some so sort of pressure sensing plug, perhaps for the ABS or the "service brake" light. But probably not used to trigger a proportioning valve???????
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Old 01-30-2016, 01:03 PM   #34
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As I understand this system, the hydraulic pump between the foot pedal and Master Cyl. increases the pressure applied to the braking system M.C. The bore of the M.C. is constant and equal in each of the two circuits, one for the front and one for the rear brakes. The diameter of the bore is directly perportional to the pressure exerted. As in smaller diameter equals more pressure, and larger diameter less pressure given the same movement. Each bore in in this installation is equal so 50/50 split front to rear brakes. I believe since the rear diesel weight is so heavy that it does not tend to raise off the ground during braking thus causing tire slipping at the pavement, they use 50/50 split. The electrical connection at the M.C. is a differential pressure switch sensing a deference between the pressure in each circuit of the M.C. If the pressure is unequal that is a Fault so most likely it lights a "service brake" warning on the dash. The simple way to increase the pressure to the wheel cylinders is to decrease the diameter of the Master Cylinder. It is by no means the only way, but probably the easiest? So if I have this figured out, Here it is. Ken
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