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Old 04-05-2012, 11:28 PM   #71
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I hope you are considering having Redland's install the product, considering their fine presentation at the Rat Rally and support of our organization.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:16 AM   #72
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I really appreciate Redlands support of ACA, but since I am in New Braunfels Texas my appreciation will have to be reflected by this post.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:12 PM   #73
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Old Scout & I replaced the MC's yesterday and the coach stopped, as expected, while returning to the RV park (although Old Scout would not drive in front of me). Pedal travel
has lengthened but stopping ability seem to be between 28 to 32% better. Heading to Justin Tx next week and that should be a good test.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:45 AM   #74
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before you change out master cylinders (and even after such a change, especially going down in MC size where the travel will be longer) you need to check that the bell crank that actuates the MC pushrod NEVER goes over center. It should be several degrees aft of center at max force on the pedal. When it goes over center mechanical advantage works the wrong way and braking distances increase dramatically.

I fixed this in my Beaver Monterey (hydraulic over hydraulic disk) by simply adjusting the clevis end of the MC pushrod.

Changing MC sizes will work, but you need to check the over center condition.
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:24 AM   #75
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VD23--good point....this MC swap-out has been done by several Alpine owners thru certified truck/RV centers and the issue of pivot point has not surfaced. Will verify with our installation but pedal travel has not increased significantly [IHMO] so dont think we have a problem. Also, given the mechanical advantage created by the pivot, a modest increase in pedal travel results in minimal increase in MC piston travel.

A couple lessons learn: 1] bench bleading the new MC is a bit of a trick--need to keep the two temp return lines submerged in fluid in the reservoir during the bleed process. Eventually used a large C-clamp to move the MC piston in/out until all air was cleared from the MC....2] to ensure no air was introduced into the brake lines, we bleed all 4 corners, removing 1/2 to a pint of fluid from each corner using the vacuum or draw technique--did not pump brake pedal until bleed was complete. Based on layout of the inter-caliper crossfeed lines, we just bleed the inner calipers--very little air was observed during the bleed.

The rusty condition of the rear caliper bleed screws [none observed on front] continues to suggest that some amount of water is settling in the rear calipers--makes periodic fluid flushing [wheels off] even more important, again IMHO.
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Old 04-25-2012, 03:55 PM   #76
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Redlands did our master cylinder swap two days ago and the braking improvement is truly significantly noticeable. Yes, the pedal has a different feel, a softer pedal; but the braking response is smooth and powerful. I think you could compare the original braking with what an automobile’s brake pedal feels like when you shut the engine down and have no power assist. In other words, you have a very hard pedal with not much braking response. After the master cylinder change, you can expect a softer pedal application to produce a smooth and linear application of very powerful braking. This upgrade is a very worthwhile consideration for all Alpine owners who are dissatisfied with their brake systems.

A big “Thank you” goes out to Al Goodman, Engineer Mike, and the great folks at Redlands Truck & R.V. Center. With the research, installation, and testing; your efforts have definitely contributed to the safety of our Alpine Coaches.
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Old 05-02-2012, 07:18 PM   #77
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Heard this morning from an Alpiner who did his own brake bleed job, pumping the brake pedal. W/a cylinder open, you should have a pretty easy time pushing the brake pedal way down. My worry is that excessive pedal travel may cause movement of the "cups" in the M.C. past a point where there is an open port. Depending on how that port is machined, if it has a sharp shoulder you could cut a nick out of the cup (the o-ring that produces the brake pressure). During his brake bleed, he had one corner that pumped fluid for a while, then quit. No matter how much pushing- no bleeding. There was a piece of foreign debris caught in the ABS manifold outlet to this caliper. Once dislodged, brakes worked fine. Not sure where that debris came from, but IIWMI'd only pressure bleed using low pressure air to a modified cap on the M.C. That's how we did it the first time at Redlands, and how Al did his own. This eliminates pumping the pedal, so can't cut the cups. Not sure if that was the problem for this 04 rig, but no reason to take that chance.
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Old 05-03-2012, 02:37 PM   #78
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EM--interesting point, we used a c-clamp on Sully's MC and only applied enough pressure to cause the fluid in the reservoir to cycle. Chamber nearest the piston end of the MC pumped immediately, second chamber was a bit sluggish to begin pumping/bleeding. This was the suggested method on one or more DYI brake sites. I was concerned about bleeding the MC remounted with the pedal Vs a bench bleed but for air trap/draw issues not a cut/dinged cup. Wonder if you couldnt/should use a vacuum gun to pull fluid from the reservoir thru the MC???? Seems like same outcome as pressurizing the caps??? My concern about water/moisture/rust in the rear calipers continues--Ive bled brakes on two Alpines now [mine and Sullys] and both showed signs of water intrusion in the rear calipers--but none in the front....
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:17 PM   #79
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I used a vacuum gun on our calipers and ended up with Popeye forearms. The problem that I had was sucking air around the nipple caused it to bleed very slow. I finally put DW Patty in the drivers seat and did the old open/closed bit. Still have the original master cylinder......knock on wood.
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Old 05-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #80
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Vacuum should work fine, but as Tom notes- probably a lot of work. Power vacuum would do the trick if you can get a good seal at the bleeder screws. Just be careful to keep fluid in the reservoir so as not to re-introduce air.
IIWMI'd bench bleed a new m.c. first, as you can watch the air get worked out of the cylinder sections much easier than once its on the coach.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:33 PM   #81
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I had a similar problem with using the vacuum gun until I decided to take out the bleed screws [biggest problem in rear calipers due to rust] and clean them. After that the vacuum gun easily pulled the fluid--though agree the pump and close method works--as long as the output tube remains submerged in the catch jar, all is well with not drawing air back in to the calipers......
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:12 AM   #82
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When I replaced my MC, I reused the two brass fittings from the the old master cylinder in the new one and both leaked at the fittings, no matter how tight I tighten them. I replaced both of them and they are different fittings. Auto parts stores don't have them, and I had to get them at a hydraulic hose supply house.

1/4 FIF/5/16MIF ADAPTER

1/4 FIF X 9/16-18 Adapter

I also used a vacuum bleeder no problem for the MC. When I replaced 13 feet of rubber brake hoses at once with stainless braid, I used the same vacuum bleeder with no problem. It took awhile, but worked fine.
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Old 05-04-2012, 12:25 AM   #83
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When we bench bled my new M.C. at Redlands they used two brake line "nipples" I bought at NAPA. they sell various lengths of tube, and diameters which is unimportant in this application), with fittings & flare on each end. I bought to tubes w/fittings that matched the female sockets on the m.c. and some clear tubing (needed two different diameters) to make the bleed setup. Just ran the two pieces of clear tubing back around into the tank sections to recycle the fluid till no air.
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Old 05-04-2012, 08:25 AM   #84
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just buy speedbleeders and all these problems with bleeding go away.
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