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Old 03-25-2010, 09:04 PM   #29
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Wayne - I have not checked mine, but when we get into the campground tomorrow I will, it's just getting into the place where that fuse it located. I know I need to check it.

Someone told me to run the extend/retract switch about 3 seconds after the room is in/out, but I don't think this is good for the pump, and so I don't. The manual does not address this issue that I can tell.

One day I know I am going to have to disassemble the components in that compartment to find the burning smell so it does not strand me. It' got lots of sharp corners and I get cut each time I mess around in there.
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Old 06-04-2010, 11:26 AM   #30
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Now that we are home, I finally had a chance to R&R the HWH circuitboard.

First, note that although the schematic calls for fuse F10 to be 10A, and HWH had used a 7.5A, the marking on the board calls for a 5A.

Here is a picture of the circuitboard:

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Visual inspection showed that diode D3 was obviously damaged/burned (it was split open) so it was replaced.


This is a closeup of the lower left portion of the photo above, showing D3:

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The trace on the other side of the board was also damaged, so a wire was soldered in its place.

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The repair to the board was easy, getting it in and out of the coach was the hard part. Now everything works fine again. I don't know why the part failed, so we'll be keeping an eye on things. Any ideas Wayne? It looks like it's the same area you were referring to in your previous post.

BTW, $0.55 for the part, plus $5.00 shipping. Being friends with an Electrical Engineer: priceless.

Again, thanks to all for helping us through this problem.
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Old 06-04-2010, 10:20 PM   #31
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John, I suspected the ground on the voltage regulator but you did not mess with it. Mine looked a lot like yours except it blew 2 diodes and the voltage regulator.

I normally pull my slides in 1st. If the diode was bad voltage could have back fed and turned the leveling system on at the same time causing the problem. I am just guessing though. All 3 diodes tied to the black wire were exposed to high current. The end of the black wire came on soldered. The solder joint at the end of the other black wire was bad also. I don't see that wire in your picture. Your board also shows signs of high heat at the end of the black wire that is just below the group of gray relays. Mine actually came un-soldered damaging the trace adjacent to it.

Glad yours came out better than mine.
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Old 06-05-2010, 12:11 PM   #32
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John- might want to call HWH tech support about the required size of fuse. Was working on an 05's hydraulics for leaks at the pump/manifold yesterday and noticed the substantial differences between his rig's motherboard & mine (what caught my eye is the relays- yours are plug-in "mini" relays so if a relay goes bad you can replace it; mine are "micro" relays, much smaller & soldered in which for a mechanical piece is practically criminal in this type of application IMHO).
My thought is that the schematic may represent a particular vintage of motherboard and the fuse req'mts may have changed.

In other news, the 06-back-to-not-sure-when HWH config that has the motherboard obscuring the view of the hydraulic manifold & solenoids can be improved for access fairly simply. Behind the motherboard and its 7 wire loom plugs is a metal stand, and the board enclosure is attached to the stand w/2 clips, one on either side. We cut off the upper part of the stand which is useless added metal. You can make the cut w/a hacksaw or small die grinder w/a cutting wheel about 3/4" above the attachment points for the clips. Now you can get at the upper side of the manifold pretty well considering, and have easier access to the jack solenoids at least, even when the board is back in place. I think the bracket was designed for a surface mount or similar use, but the chopped off config is a nice improvement.
Note- every time you remove/re-install the motherboard (that has the small sensor board inside the board enclosure) on its mount, you need to re-level the coach w/a carpenter's level or similar device, then adjust the sensor board. Earlier models had a mercury switch setup separate from the motherboard, and recalibration is not needed unless you move the mercury switch setup.
Adjustment of the mini sensor board takes a 7/8" socket for left-right and a 1/4" socket or stubby Phillips screwdriver for fore-aft; there are 4 LEDs on the sensor board corrresponding to the 4 LEDs that indicate side or end of coach "low" on the touch pad; after coach is true level, tune the sensor board's attitude till all 4 LEDs on it are unlit. Board is now recalibrated.
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Old 10-10-2010, 08:52 PM   #33
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Hello !~!!!!

Guess who just got the same dam problem right before my 2nd trip ever in the coach???

Same blown {is it a diode?} same 2 points where the circuit board burnt and needs a piece of wire to bridge the circuit board burn...

What is that diode size or resistor and where can I get one...?

Personally, If they had a better unit where, as you all were speaking, there was a by pass for the slides so you would not overheat the unit as much.

Also fantastic work here...

MY board model # is AP30126 SN 68
Can I do much better and avoid this same problem again by possibly ordering a better board able to withstand the heat and maybe a better slide bypass.

One last question... Seems that board was meant for a 5 amp fuse... cause it burnt the circuit board path directly between that fuse and that diode/resistor...whatever it is... seems the fuse blew after it burnt the board in that direct circuit path between the 2 ... Now maybe 5 amp the fuse blows and no burnt board???
BUT.... and there is always BUTS... Maybe the amperage needed is over 5 and a slight bite to much for this circuit board...

Now if you made 5 million of them and discover the problem....... you have a big problem...
But your chief Engineer saves the day by noticing a 7.5 fuse will get you by for so long since the rated amperage of a circuit and the actual "BLOW" or circuit melt is always a bite more...
OH ..2005 FDQS ... so were right on schedule it seems....

Well, what do you all think??? Why does that say 5 amp?? And could we be seeing the start of another epidemic of a timed failure ?

BY THE WAY ..BEAUTIFUL WORK JOHNLORI.. YOUR PHOTO'S SAVED THE DAY LAST NIGHT OF A TIRED AND FRUSTRATED GUY....! At least I went to bed feeling good and understanding the situation and earlier in the day..I had NO CLUE as to even where to start...
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Old 10-10-2010, 10:22 PM   #34
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All - I don't know if this is the reason but one of the first things I did in the HWH bay was re-do all the crimped terminals on the connector block in that compartment. The connector block (for lack of a better description) had all #14 wire and #10-12 connectors, and every time I wiggled a wire, it came out of the terminal or seemed to be very loose. So I just re-did every connector one at a time, and then made sure they were all tight. I replaced the spade connectors with ring connectors so even if a screw was to get lose, the connector won't just drop out unless the screw falls out. We have (knock on wood) not had any trouble with the motors, circuit boards to date, and since we are not full timing it, those components get used every time we stop and then again when we leave.

FWIW - electrical/electronic/mechanical components work better when they are used frequently it seems. So my recommendation is to cycle the jacks - slides - generator - ac - HH (if equipped) - furnace - water pump at least once a month. The owner’s manual for each sub-system recommend’s some amount of use each month. My genset used to be hard to start, but ever since I started using it for more than the recommended two hours a month it runs perfect and now even runs when the main engine is running. Even if you are locked into a location for a long time, take a few hours on a day when nothing else is going on, and run those systems, it will make them work so much better. I am convinced that Gremlins get into these coaches and working the stuff keeps them at bay.

FWIW-2 – based on the photos provided, it appears to be a double sided soldered board, which is very good manufacturing if that is the case. So something external is/are causing this diode to short out. I would make doubly sure the grounds on this system are/is tight, and where they meet a metal surface it needs to be free of paint, “so that rust/corrosion does not occur”, use a little NO-OX-ID( http://www.sanchem.com/aSpecialE.html ) or Vaseline under the lug/terminal to prevent corrosion from forming, and a larger lug size and screw will help to keep them tight.

FWIW-3 - I am trying to see if I can come up with a aftermarket vendor for these boards. I got a few links in Class, but cannot find them now, so I sent my old teacher an e-mail, if he sends along anything I will post the link here. Dinosaur Electronics would be my first stop if I need a control board for a furnace, refer, or water heater - wont sell to the general public, but I would order for anyone here and then ship it to you. Don't think they do any HWH boards, but, I am still checking. HH does not have any other supplier than themselves for there boards, and they are a good board, so I would get that one from them.

This place has some stuff - check them out:
http://www.nwrvsupply.com/index.htm
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:01 AM   #35
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I'll take a look at all those connections in the morning Ole Rver...

And I am sure guilty of letting her seat for awhile.... I will remember the once a month!

***I am wrong about the 7.5 fuse leading directly to that burnt out Diode?/ resistor?.. ***

Like the photo shows... It goes from that same 3rd pin to the one side of the diode/resistor. I thought that might be the 7.5 fuse but after taking the circuit board out and putting it up to a light bulb, that is the same 3rd pin down as shown in the photo and that is not either side of that 7.5 fuse...

But either way... something is making these fuses pop and still melting that same section between those 2 points...
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Old 10-11-2010, 10:14 AM   #36
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I believe it was this diode, but check your numbers, because I ordered several different ones at the same time.
ON SEMICONDUCTOR|1N6277AG|TVS DIODE, 1.5KW, 18V, 41A | Newark.com
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Old 10-11-2010, 11:41 AM   #37
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Thanks JohnLori,
I got to admit you are quicker to answer by email then getting a call back from that company HWH... and you are by random "kind" help.

First, I try the toll free...forget it...
Ok local # ... Ring ring ring ring ring {geeze no answering machine at least} ..

ring ring... finally ....Hello... let me put you on hold... 15 minutes later.. AH..
The classic.... Name/phone number/ and we'll call you right back... YEAH..

It's now 2 hours later........ Im still waiting... I did stress Im kinda STUCK.....

I gotta feeling this company is like their product....

"Lets put a 7.5 fuse in a circuit thats rated for 5.....Yeah..that will work for awhile"........Yeah we need more then 5 ... or that thing will be popping all the time...

Good grief.........

Im gonna order the same thing right now! I am not sure what you mean by "checking your numbers"? ..... the diode was burnt to a crisp.. nothing i could get off of that..
I do have Model # AP30126 SN 68.. has the same macro pull out, like yours.. actually looks just like yours in the photo.
The circuit board has a number P25733-2 stamped in the one corner.

Here is some photo's.

Lets see... 2 1/2 hours later... no call back.........
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:03 PM   #38
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Are you stuck somewhere? Sorry, I thought you were at home.

You can hotwire around the circuit board:

Emergency HWH Slide Operation.doc
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:34 PM   #39
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I just got off the phone with HWH corporation

ONE WORD....... ~UNREAL~


John, Yes I am at my camp in Michigan... And it sure beats being stuck in Mexico! My gosh...talk about bad situations!!!

But i guess, I was on a schedule....... "was" ..... So I'll sit and wait for those diodes... I got the wire strap ready...and i ordered the diodes.

It beats dealing with HWH... I dont know what their problem is down there in Iowa...

I wonder if there is another company dealing with this same type of hydraulic system..... Im certainly ready to jump ship on these guys...

Even if i have to rewire the whole dam thing... I have absolutely no faith in these people. PERIOD!
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Old 10-11-2010, 12:48 PM   #40
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No call backs....
smart @$$ receptionist...
throws you on unlimited hold..
When you finally reach your own "melting point' like their miserable board..
4 hours later ..no call back

You call them ....immediate HOLD.15 more minutes
so you hang up and call back... This time i let her have it.. Hung up {I dont blame her}
Call Back... Im PO'ed now....

Man answers....I give him the low down..

Knows nothing about anything- cant tell me what model I have in respect to where they stand with their latest update...even when I give him the model number...
But when I give him the Why/? the 7.5 over the circuit board printed 5amp
Not a clue....
WHY are we all having this melt and same blown diode and tracer at the same time... Not a clue...

What is your latest updated model....? Not a clue...

Can you give me the blown diode reference numbers... Really clueless .....



STATES HE KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT ELECTRONIC'S -
BUT he is quick to point out that the "Melt" is a CIRCUIT OVERLOAD due to bad house batteries....... WOW.... where did that come from...???

Even when Im at wits end and surrender to what ever latest model they have.. {Of course he knew they have a "BEEFED UP" version } HMMMMM
He still could be of no help.... seems someone has to call me on that too....
So maybe they will call next year or something...

Like there was NO way IM ordering the same dam thing... But i figured maybe the next guy down the line wasnt clueless...

maybe he could actually make a STATEMENT about their product and where their at...... GEEZE....... HOPELESS....
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Old 10-12-2010, 03:15 AM   #41
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HWH might be giving you the runaround, but power gear (The other hydraulic slide maker) won’t say more than 10 words in an e-mal, all lower case, bad spelling and grammar and they were rude as well. If the industry (according to RV Business Magazine) is focusing on customer service, I have not seen it except at Suburban, Aqua Hot, Splendide and a few local places. Tiffin also has good CS. Today I received a call on a suburban furnace warranty issue, went over and fixed it, called Suburban to get the authorization number and was on hold less than 3 minutes, explained to the gentleman, and no sweat, auth # and on my way, so there are companies who do have great customer service.

Now with that said, HWH most likely got stiffed for thousands of dollars from WRV/Monnamoy when they closed, so when WRV owners call, we cost them even more money because we are orphans, but that is no excuse for the crappy hold times and poor customer service. If it's any help, they have a great hydraulic/electronic course on the website you can download and take exams on. They used to have the class available in a real teaching setting. My guess is they are just scraping by, have laid off lots of staff, and are just holding on by the skin of their teeth. Problem with that is, crappy customer service, people will not purchase their product and will avoid recommending them. Word get out sales will go down more and then the door closes. My guess is they have hundreds of calls, few tech staff to handle the load, so everyone suffers, they do and we do. Last year I had problems with leaking hyd actuator, called, got through in about 10 minutes, fellow opened a case, and they agreed to pay for the parts on the repair. That was last year, times might be worse for them now.

I posted a link to a place in Eugene, OR who has lots of used stuff, you might see if they have the board.
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Old 10-12-2010, 08:39 AM   #42
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Wingding,
I believe the failure is from the way HWH turns the pump on for slide operation. The diodes are in place to prevent powering the board while the slides are being operated. I suspect the diodes are breaking down and back feeding power to the board. HWH use a portion of the electronics on the board to operate the master relay and pump relay for slide operation. The slide switches supply the 12 volts and don’t need the HWH board. If 12volts is applied to c1 and c12 through a pair of diodes the slides will work with the green board removed.

When my board went bad my batteries where fully charged and all connections were good.
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