Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-29-2009, 08:35 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
Phantom Electrical issues

Hello all,
We moved sites today. First site, the power pedestal was dead.

Moved next door, and before we went to the trouble of hooking all up, checked electrical with known good device. There was present 110V at a 15A receptacle.

Hooked up the 50A lead into the coach, nada, nothing, no A/C.

So I figured the transfer switch might have not picked up the signal, so I turned off the breaker in the pedestal, turned off the coach master switches, and waited the 10 seconds so the system sort of reboots itself. Turned the master switches back on, and then turned on the 50A breaker in the pedestal, nothing, but now showing a fault light on the Xantrex. Again, I turned off everything, including the 50A pedestal, and checked the connection in the transfer switch by removing the cover and opening it up. I am aware of the previous posts about lose wires all over these units, and have gone through it checking every wire I can get too, so the transfer switch issues were resolved last year. I found one wire which was not by any means loose, but it tightened up a little. With the cover off, I then turned on the master switches, the breaker in the 50A panel, and nothing.

But this time our food was getting warm in the refer, so I just hit the reset button on the Xantrex. The system went through its boot up and then the power came up. Since we have the APEX coach, there is no Xantrex control panel; everything is controlled through the silverleaf display either through the TV set or the smaller readout on the dash. I have no administrator’s code to access any fault codes on the Xantrex, so I don’t have a clue what the error is. According to the Xantrex manual, the fault light is a network fault, not a fault in the unit if I understand it correctly.

The one thing that seems not to be working correctly is the charger for the batteries. When viewing the display, it’s enabled, but showing “0” amps being pushed into the batteries, nor has its status moved from enabled to float.

I have checked Xantrex network connections for the things I can find, but all those connections are tight. The status light on the front panel of the Xantrex show lit for charger and inverter. But then I turned the inverter off, so we will know if we lose power, I then need to plug the fridge in directly to 110V so the food is not lost.

Although we now have power running through the house, something must be wrong, and since I cannot view the error codes, do not know exactly what to do.

Any assistance would be helpful. And please draw out any things I need to do, because I am not the wizard on the electrical side like others. Tomorrow I was going to check to ensure all the solenoids connections are tight, since we have been on the road for a couple of months, something might have worked it way lose and not know it. The alternator from the engine will charge the batteries, but my guess is, even if i ran the genset, it would not, since it would go through the inverter/silverleaf display. I have checked the temperture sensor on the batteries themselves and it's tight.

We are here for another 7 days.
__________________

__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 11-29-2009, 11:18 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
takepride's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,563
Monty:

Since our coaches are a bit different, I offer this as what to check on my coach. Your symptoms have occurred in my coach and I found that the SurgeGuard was bypassing the shorepower. Once due to too much voltage, once due to reversed polarity, twice due to bad ground, once due to low cycle and many times due to low voltage (now offset by Power Master buck booster).

The bad ground was caused once by a GFI on the 20 amp pedestal outlet, though I was not using it, and once by an old-style screw in fuse on the 20 amp outlet, also not being used. Disconnection of both outlets returned proper ground to 50 amp outlet.

On several occasions the low voltage situation caused the symptoms to come and go, switching the Surge Guard on and off.

Do you have a Surge Guard? Does it have a display panel? Mine is under the bathroom sink.

If this does not solve your problem, you will have to determine where the A/C is being interrupted (pedestal, cord, booster, transfer switch, surge protector, panel, Xantrex, secondary panel). Lots of crawling around inside the storage area. Also a good time to learn even more about your coach.
__________________

__________________
2003 Alpine 40FDTS (400HP)
Long Beach, CA
takepride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 12:11 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Monty- you have two transfer switches, one is SurgeGuard and the second is in the Xantrex and applies to sending 110V to the stuff powered by the inverter/charger. Could be problem w/the xfer switch in the Xantrex.
Sounds like you are on a good systematic track for finding a solution.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 09:39 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Dale777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 495
Monty,

As a diagnostic measure, why wouldn't you simply try using the GenSet? If everything is okay when using the GenSet, then you can point to likely problems with the park pedestal.
__________________
Dale & Karin
2006 Alpine Coach Limited 36FDTS
Watercolor Artist: http://www.cindydaunis.com/
Dale777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 10:01 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Theberrys's Avatar


 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,605
This thread is why I did this Mod
AC Meter Project - Windows Live
Without meters you are just guessing.

Dick
__________________
1999 Tradewinds 7372 Cat 3126
Albuquerque, NM
Theberrys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 10:47 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Dale777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: TX
Posts: 495
Theberrys,

Your "AC Meter Project" with photos intrigues me. Can you provide more details of the theory and how-to of your project?
__________________
Dale & Karin
2006 Alpine Coach Limited 36FDTS
Watercolor Artist: http://www.cindydaunis.com/
Dale777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 11:39 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Theberrys's Avatar


 
National RV Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,605
Voltage Monitor Parts List

http://www.newark.com/shurite-meters/cp-f72-55-65h-120v-ac-i/frequency-meter/dp/48J6155?Ntt=48j6155 (Freq Meter)

http://www.newark.com/shurite-meters/cp-l72v-150v-ac-i/voltage-meter/dp/48J6167?Ntt=48j6167 (Volt Meter)

http://www.action-electronics.com/lmdc.htm?zoom_highlight=KAB3743 (Box)

http://www.action-electronics.com/switches.htm?zoom_highlight=30-004 (Switch)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97420 (Crimp Tool)

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90279 (Terminals)

Purchased at Home Depot

16 or 18 AWG Wire (As Needed)

Conduit (As Needed)

Block Diagram attached.

Be sure to buy a Center Off switch to avoid shorting out the two phases of AC. Also run a ground wire from the transfer switch to the new box.

The Box I bought was a little hard to cut because it's heavy; a lighter weight box would work fine but should be metal for grounding.

I connected mine to the output of the Transfer Switch so I could monitor what the coach was getting. Shore or Genny.

The Phase switch only matters if you connect to 50 amp service. If it's 30 amp or 15 amp there is only one phase applied to both feeds in the coach, this is done in the adapter pigtail.
Hope this helps.

Dick

oops that third wire from the coach to terminal 2 of the meters is the common A/C line White wire.

The Phase wires are either Black or Red or both.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Block Diag.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	27.5 KB
ID:	1938  
__________________
1999 Tradewinds 7372 Cat 3126
Albuquerque, NM
Theberrys is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2009, 09:14 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
EM & All, I have weather approaching and do not want to take down the power, as I am not sure it will come back up.

But once I have the weather window needed, can I put meter on the outgoing Surge Guard leads, to ensure it's passing power through it. Since I do have a/c now, I believe this is a mute point, and since I reset the Xantrex, it's passing power as well. The only part is the Charger is not putting anything back into the batteries.

This then would indicate the Xantrex is the problem, then I am not sure what to test, because I don't have the control panel, since I'm an APEX owner. One thing I am going to do, is to shut down the pedestal power, turn off the master switches, and see if the Xantrex has any power to it. I think I read in past postings, that the Xantrex has some power even when the coach/chassis is turned off. I think the Xantrex is lost, or there is really a breakdown of a network connection. One other thing I can do is also pull the power on the Silverleaf, to clear any internal errors it may have stored blocking its operation.

Since I don't know enough about the Xantrex or any way to diagnose it's problems, most likely I will call them on the phone, and see if we can do some testing without the control panel, if not, the I will call silverleaf and try to gain access through that. I will let all know. I don't think the pedestal is the problem, since the system is reporting the A/C is good.

Thank you all so far for the assistance.
__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 01:52 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
swansnest's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: North Tustin, CA
Posts: 320
Monty - Just as we were leaving on a 6 wk trip first of Oct our Surgeguard went out - testing it with volt meter showed 1 side was out. In the emergency - we were able to get a transfer switch so our batteries could stay charged and went on our way til we got to Cody WY and ordered the Surgeguard from Camping World and Surgeguard shipped it immediately from Florida and we had it the next week. Tris took out the trans swtch and put in Surgegrd & took care of that problem. The Surgeguard is needed for the Silverleaf to work properly with it. (has like a telephone connection to Silverleaf on it).

At the same time our HWH hydraulic motherboard went out and at the end of 5 weeks we went to Portland to Elwells to get it replaced and the hydraulics working again! :>)

Before our trip in July - Tris replaced the Zantrex with the 3000 and that took care of those problems!

Oh, such adventure!
__________________
The Swans
2007 ALPINE APEX 40'MDTS
#75710.
swansnest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2009, 09:03 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Old Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,940
Ref earlier threads on Zantrex RS2000s, there are a couple of things you can try to reset the inverter/charger. The Surgeguard and diagnostics on shore power are separate issues. Not familar with Silverleaf but assuming you can see the Zantrex menues via Silverleaf, you can reset the RS2000 by going to the main menu, then select the configuration menu, and then the "reset default" option. This will restore factory settings. According to a Zantrex tech--the RS2000 prefers the bat size set at 440 amphrs. Regardless of actual bat size, resetting this parameter at 440 doesnt seem to impact charger performance....good luck....
__________________
Old Scout
2003 40' MDTS
Garden Ridge, Texas
Old Scout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 09:47 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
Ture to form, we had that weather, it rained hard from around 3PM yesterday to at least 10PM last evening. Today it was cloudy and cold, windy, then the wind left, but now it getting windy again as we have anouther front coming with some snow or freezing rain in it. So today we tried the genset to see if it would transfer over and get the power back correctly, it killed the power completely. So I turned of the pedistal and reset the Xantrex, nothing, so I turned on the pedistal again, and the Xantrex came up with no errors, and now all is well with the power, charger working and everything. To recap, our problems started when we tried to hookup to the site next to the one we are in now, and my guess is the netural on the 115V Receptable is shorted out, because nothing worked when we tried to see if it had power as a test. We just moved over to the next site, and by then, the Xantrex had a burr up it's circuit board. It took two days for it get over that.
For what is worth, it appears WRV did not seal the bathroom window when they installed it, as it leaks water underneath the frame when the rain is coming from that direction. I want to remove the window, reseal the area on the outside then reinstall it, but don't know how these things go togther. I will do a search on the net to see if there are any cutaways. Thank you all who responded to the issues. Yes, I also agree there is something else wrong with the electrical-Xantrex-SurgeGuard, but I am not going to mess with it until we are someplace where it is not raining/snowing, and it's warm enought to be outside and do some checking. Before we leave here, I will make sure the genset can pickup the coach load so we have a backup source of power, but, short of taking it to a qualified Xantrex place, I don't have a clue what could have caused it, other than some portection built into the unit itself.
__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 10:11 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
takepride's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,563
Dick:

I was thinking your upgrade was pretty neat, but realized this information is already available on (most) Alpines, in digital form, on the SurgeGuard panel.

Monty:

Though you do not have the SurgeGuard panel, the Silver Leaf shows the same info. You ought to be able to see the voltage and cycles of each leg and also any warnings about reversed polarity, open ground, high/lo voltage, etc. It sounds like you just need to figure out your Silver Leaf. I've recently been in contact with "Silver Leaf-Tim" on this forum. He is very helpful and can likely coach you through it. I'm glad to hear that basically "rebooting" everything worked out for you.
__________________
2003 Alpine 40FDTS (400HP)
Long Beach, CA
takepride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 10:23 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
takepride's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 1,563
Sincde this thread is now closing, I'll go a bit off-topic and tell you the windows are easy. There are several threads on this, at least one on Alpine and other irv2 forums.

First, verify that the outside weep-holes are open in the bottom of the frame. Occasionally, an over-zealous caulker with fill the drains.

Second, just unscrew the frame from the inside of the coach. Remove it, wiggle the window a bit. From the outside, use a plastic spatula to pry the window out of the wall. It is just held by sealant now. It helps to have a lovely assistant to apply outward pressure from inside the coach. Be sure to compliment her regularly during the process.

Next, clean everything up and use new sealants to re-install. Camping World (or others) can tell you exactly which ones work best. (I'm sure you'll see some suggestions a few inches below this post.) Most seem to advise one sealant (or butyl-tape) for the window frame and another to bead around the top and sides.

I've also seen suggestions in Highways, Good Sam Online, FMCA, Woodall's, RV View, RV.net, etc. I'd rate it as an easy repair.
__________________
2003 Alpine 40FDTS (400HP)
Long Beach, CA
takepride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2009, 11:13 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
TP - I think WRV used the same sealant glass installers used. I think they forgot this one, as all the other have oozed the sealant out when the coach has heated up in the summer. I need at least two dry & warm days so I have a good time frame to fix it, then knowing it will take at most 1/2 day. It most likely will be once we hit Florida as the long range weather is cold and wet along out route. Thank you for the information, and I will let you know how this repair goes once it's complete. As for the electrical, I had a great link to a home built 50A tester, and then cleaned up my links and most likely deleted it, but, I have it at home, so once I get their I can get it back, but that is not doing me any good now.
__________________

__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Cummings NW in Portland, OR & Electrical Issues Old Rv'er Alpine Coach Owner's Forum 3 08-30-2008 10:13 AM
120 Electrical Issues Hebegb RV Systems & Appliances 6 12-07-2007 05:55 PM
Slide-out Electrical Issues Rick Stevens Travel Trailer Discussion 6 05-17-2007 01:28 PM
In-Motion satelite system -electrical issues campernut2 MH-General Discussions & Problems 10 04-17-2007 03:16 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.