Community Forums

Barbaraok · 05-22-2008, 02:31 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The point is, if the coach had been built properly and had a decent QC inspection at the factory, this kind of stuff would not and should not happen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And if that had been the case they probably wouldn't have gone belly up. Unfortunately, like numerous companies, when the second generation takes over they get grandiose ideas about going 'big time' and forget the essentials that made the company work in the first place.

But all of that is water under the bridge - we all have to move forward and if you keep letting this eat you, soon you will be blaming your wife for wanting the coach and anything that goes wrong will be her fault, etc., and that is not what you want. It is hard to let go, believe me I know. I still have issues that were made worse at the factory last fall, but there isn't anything I can do about that now - we'll figure out a fix and move on. We still love the layout, love the ride, etc. So make lemonade and enjoy the lifestyle.

Barb

ClarkBowen · 05-22-2008, 02:57 PM

I'm glad BigJimbo brought it up and made an issue of it. Now I'll go check my generator.
Also, I see he owns a 2006 Apex and from what I've read about them I'd be frustrated too.
Frankly, I don't think censoring these types of comments helps.
I want to hear the gripes and hopefully the solutions.

Clark

big jimbo · 05-22-2008, 04:10 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ClarkBowen:
I'm glad BigJimbo brought it up and made an issue of it. Now I'll go check my generator.
Also, I see he owns a 2006 Apex and from what I've read about them I'd be frustrated too.
Frankly, I don't think censoring these types of comments helps.
I want to hear the gripes and hopefully the solutions.

Thank you Clark, I'm glad to see somebody else is able to see that we have a problem.

Clark </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Old Scout · 05-22-2008, 04:44 PM

I am sorry but this thread is just too good to let go. Lets get real here--Ray Charles could see we all have a problem now that WRV is closed. And no one is trying to "censor" the free flow of ideas, creative or otherwise. But geewiz man--enough with the "sour grapes" we all feel your pain. We Alpiners got dealt a bad hand--some worse than other--but its a done deal. So how 'bout we all try to focus on something more positive like $5/gal diesel?

big jimbo · 05-22-2008, 05:16 PM

What is positive about $5.00 per gallon diesel.
I see that as another negative

Lyle & Cath · 05-22-2008, 06:52 PM

We have the first Apex off the line and yes we have had problems just like any other mfg has. People need to read other forums or look in shops that are doing repairs and you just might find that there is not much difference.
this forum is the savior for us who have been orphaned. In many cases the suggestions put forth by our bretheren have been better than those from WRV. I believe those that are doing the sour grapes thing are shooting us all in the foot. We are not the only people who read this forum. When others read and hear the negative stuff instead of productive solutions, what do you think happens to the value of our coaches? So when you do go to trade your coach in you may get .50 on the dollar.
Yes we have been dealt a blow, so what are we going to do about it? I am for getting over it and look at the forum for the fixes we need. Negative begets negative. By the way we have no intention of getting rid of our 06 Apex. We love it and have not found an other coach that beats it.

Lyle
Apex1

zinom · 05-22-2008, 08:10 PM

Just a note for those of you who go looking for that box; if you have the skill-set open the cover and be sure the "wire nuts" are properly sized and connected. From a previous thread and my own experience on a '05 36mdds it will prevent numerous ?? intermittent ?? problems.

What I miss most as an orphan were the people we could call for technical advice...now that is US. We can do it!

ClarkBowen · 05-23-2008, 06:38 AM

Thanks Lyle, for what I believe is the first honest negative comment about Bigjimbo's posting. It isn't about sour grapes or growing up or accepting your fate - it is about money. In other words - resale value.
However, I do not believe his comments will affect the resale one iota. The factory closing took care of that issue quite nicely - especially for the newer coaches.
I think you'll find that most owners trade their coaches in rather than selling them and I'm sure the dealers are not using these comments when it comes to pricing your trade. If, as everyone seems to say, all the manufacturers have these problems then Bigjimbo's comments are also irrelevant for pricing -- but they were valuable for me.

Lyle & Cath · 05-23-2008, 12:41 PM

I can not claim "origial thought" on the issue of price drop because of potential negative talk on the forum. It came from the Sales Mgr of a very large Alpine dealership. This dealership has helped fund many ACA and regional rallys. His thoughts on the continuation of future funding is dependant largely on the "flavor" of this forum. If we don't support the product then why should he? Please don't assume this to mean that I think we should all walk on egg shells when we are on the forum. That is not what it is for. I understand the forum to be an arena where we can state our problems, look for and find answers and support each other in a positive manner.

ClarkBowen · 05-23-2008, 06:33 PM

Frankly Lyle it smacks of extortion. Play nice or I won't pay for the rallies. Why should they continue to pay for Alpine rallies when they no longer sell the line.
This isn't grand time to be in the RV business and any sales manager risks a hiding from the General Manager or owner if he spends money foolishly.
If it is just "us" now then honesty is the best policy IMHO. It certainly is not catering to an RV dealer who will only benefit if we take our rigs to him for service.
Who is going to benefit from our predicament? That's who you should ask to fund rallies. They have a vested interest in getting our attention.

Clark

granny · 05-24-2008, 05:40 AM

I am sure the technical discussion in this thread is very useful. For other posts telling someone to get on with their life and worried about dealers footing part of the bill for rallies were useless and self-serving. Let's face it, discussions about WRV/Alpine on this board won't make a difference -- dealers are more than aware of the amount of mechanical issues. Maybe this is why WRV was never able to get a dealer network setup or keep the ones they had.

NorCal Hal · 05-24-2008, 05:18 PM

I for one (I should probably say we, including my wife) enjoy our Alpine. Do we have problems - sure. Do I complain and grumble - sure. But the fact of the matter is I didn't buy the motor home as an financial investment I knew the value would dropped 20% (or whatever number you want to use) the moment I drove off the lot. Nothing has changed with my coach with the closing of WRV. My coach is still a beautiful, head turning motor home with quality name brand components & systems, out in front styling and paint schemes, a better than average HP to weight ratio, a nice attractive mid level coach with above average components for an entry level price and a great bunch of fellow owners. Like some person wrote on the forum a week ago he loved the Alpine but couldn't afford the price. Now he is buying the coach he wants and realizes going in that for the price he's paying (and no WRV) he will have to work out some of the kinks and gremlins himself while he remembers what a bargin he got. As for the rest of us who may owe more than we can sell or trade for, we drive the wheels off it, enjoy it and make it the best times of our lives. As one fellow Alpine owner said maybe if we had all paid WRV another $ 50,000 per coach they wouldn't be insolvent.. I will, however, miss those great WRV funded ACA functions, homecomming and the free tech support guys at the rallys...Harold.

alpinerver · 05-24-2008, 05:28 PM

I think that Monomoy really tried to make thing work, they inherited a hugh amount of red ink from Doyle, I feel they hired some excellent people to try to make a go of it. with the whole industry in the toilet mainly because of energy there was evidently no where to go. Just my 2 cents worth. Larry

EngineerMike · 05-25-2008, 09:47 AM

WRV under Doyle (maybe under Monomoy too but I don't know that) paid to participate in independent quality ranking surveys each year among motorhome manufacturers. Alpine's ranking was somewhere around a 97th percentile showing. The surveys may not have captured all dimensions that us motorhome users would have prescribed, but they at least measured those attributes assumed to be important by manufacturers. And ranking highly among coach manufacturers may not say much in the absolute sense, but it gives important perspective to how WRV did in a relative sense. Given the retrospective of having gone thru the new coach grind twice, I'd say the strengths of Alpine were heavily concentrated in two areas.

First, and most significant, was a focus on pre-manufacturing design excellence. Chassis handling, the fundamental birthright of Alpines across all model years, is well publicised, and that was driven by unhurried focus on designed-in quality. Ditto w/multiplexed chassis wiring, a feature that was ahead of its time for a manufacturer of this size and price point. Ditto in a big way w/the basement redesign and SmartBeds. This strength is built in to our coaches and won't dissipate as our rigs measure against other junque for sale on dealer's lots.

Second is great dedication to post-mfg'rg service. As we know there are lots of very happy campers here on iRV2 on this score, and some wildly dissatisfied campers also. Obviously proper QC/QA in mfg'rg would have resolved a large volume of the complaints all of us had, whether happy w/service we received or not. Even the massive belly-flop of the Avalanche was emblematic here- the saying was they mfg'rd 23 Avalanches and bought back 24

Apexes too- for all the newfangled gadgetry there was massive support to get the stuff on track and/or rehab things that didn't work according to the Apexer's I've met personally. Obviously this post-mfg'rg service aspect is gone.

What has always been amazing to me is the experience at Winnebago. Back in the early 90's they put in a new state of the art facility, including massive pin-router tables to cut coach side walls to 1/64th of an inch (and advertised these investments for the quality promise they contained). Their stuff shoulda resulted in the japanese quality offering among motorhomes. With their massive investment in plant & ability to engineer & manufacture to a jillionth of an inch, they should have showed the world how to build a coach, but somehow that has never come to fruition.

Doyle once said, "Our coaches are never out of warranty." Likely he was referring to the constant drag, in both money and in employee & managerial focus, of servicing calls from Alpiners w/out-of-warranty coaches, including doing repairs that were clearly well past warranty expiration. I have to give Ron & the crew @ WRV great credit for maintaining this under-scale enterprise as long as they did. <span class="ev_code_BLUE">I have a great coach</span> as the primary result, and <span class="ev_code_BLUE">belong to a great community</span> as a secondary and quite felicitous result. I'm sure the latter is a completely unintended "product" of WRV, yet here we are