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Old 04-15-2010, 09:36 AM   #15
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(Somewhat off the thread) I guess I'll have to agree with Wayne. I think the previous owner had some issues that the factory corrected, but my biggest issue in the 3 years I've had the coach has been the Hydro Hot. Between me and Good Sam CSP, it's been close to $4000 of service to get it/keep it working. Aside from that, no major issues and I love living in the coach. And will get the rear end bolts checked at my annual service next month.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:09 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Rv'er View Post
........... I am underneath it so far, oxygen is needed to breathe. We both wish we had never seen it. It's causing lots of disgreaments and it's not fun knowing every time we use it, move it, or park it, money is going to flow out of our fingers quicker than it comes in. Do I sound pissed, .......

This is not just a WRV issue, but is an issue across MOST Class A mohos AND Stick and brick homes...We can blame many for that issue!

I was looking for a refi and the appraisal came back @ $50K less than I paid for the stick house 7 yeas ago......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Rv'er View Post
....WRV built crappy motorhomes, and not one or two but hundreds. Why DOT never shut them down is a wonder to me.......
Sounds suspiciously like many of those WH chassis owners (many different moho brands) with Bosch brakes and those WRV owners with Bosch brakes....

I have to agree that the Motorhome industry needed the "Wake-Up" call they got over the last 2 years, and the marginal players have already left the table...Monaco, WRV, Alpha, National, CC....

The remaining players need to listen to this, and learn that we all got fooled once (shame on you) but we hopefully won't get fooled again, (shame on ourselves if we do)
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:12 AM   #17
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Wayne, I am sure we will do the same, it's just frustrating to see another material problem on these coaches. The steering bracket was bad enough, now this. I don't think my coach is involved since I am around 325 coaches higher up the line based on my S/N but the next time I am down there lubing the universal joints I will look for the bolts being discussed. I dont have the experience nor knowledge to change them if there the wrong ones but I will have to take is someplace to have it done if that is a problem. However, we have gone across the country and almost back, and have not experienced any issues described here in this post, so I don't think we have it.
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Old 04-15-2010, 10:21 AM   #18
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Amen to MIKE, but, when we tourned the Tampa Supershow back in January, not one motorhome we walked into was perfect. We found lots of surface imperfections and I think I put a switch cover back on one of them. Tiffin is reportedly doing 1200 coaches this year, that is over 50 a week, how can you have quality on that complex a product putting out that many units, the housing industry even knows that, not that they listen very loud. Like I have said lots of times, if Honda ever builds a motorhome, that is the one I will buy. They listen, and their product quality is second to none.
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Old 04-15-2010, 11:08 AM   #19
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Back on track (if all goes well and the creeks don't rise), here is a sketch provided by WRV to repair shops to do the bolt swap (compliments of a scan by LouisB):


They show use of some hydraulic assist equipment for axle alignment before tightening the bolt patterns. This equipment should be available at truck alignment shops near you (that are capable of a 4-wheel align).
The artist did not sign his work, so we well attribute it to "Anonymous" and characterize it as being "From the School of" WRV.
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Old 04-15-2010, 05:29 PM   #20
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Thanks for the picture! Now I know where to look.
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Old 04-15-2010, 06:11 PM   #21
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EM,

Are you saying that we WRVers need a drawing (Map) to find our "Rear Ends?"
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Old 04-15-2010, 08:47 PM   #22
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This may make some feel a little better. Our VIN is 75351. We were at the Fort Benning, GA 2008 pre-Perry Rally just after Louie had his coach fixed the first time. Louie was kind enough to check our coach out and no problem was found.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:23 AM   #23
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Owners of '04 coach 74923 report they have two rows of 3 each 5/8 bolts, but that the rows are horizontal not vertical as for the later coaches. Leads me to believe either WRV switched to a different hanger or that Neway switched bolt patterns from horizontal to vertical and while they were at it, from 5/8 to 3/4 bolts. That's all theory on my part, so hopefully we will get more coach #'s and reports of what the hanger bolts & pattern are. Thanks for your posts.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:44 PM   #24
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This just in from LouisB-
The difference in the Holland ADL Series axle is that the 'old' design had a white box beam that ran fore and aft from the hanger to the axle while the 'new' design has two plates (mounted vertically) that replace the box and a 4-5 inch round pipe across the rear end to tie them together. Max Z told me that the hole (hanger vs frame) discrepancy began when these new units started being used. The 5/8 bolts match the frame but not the larger hole in the hanger.
Louis
That indicates to me WRV changed the pattern but not the bolt & frame hole size when the revised Holland suspension started to deliver, and then later changed the bolt/hole size.

So at this point it looks like 04 owners can look for 2 horizontal rows of 3 bolts each ahead of the rear wheel and against the frame, and take comfort you have the old style w/all fasteners correct. For later 04/early 05 with 2 vertical rows, if bolt heads are 15/16 hex you have a condition that needs a closer look; if bolt heads are 1-1/8" hex, you are good to go.

Bigfish- your coach 75239 remains an enigma w/coaches before and after having 5/8 bolts while you report 3/4; perhaps yours was caught during original abrication, or maybe fixed by a prior owner?
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Old 04-17-2010, 09:29 PM   #25
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EM - We did a factory pickup in Oct 2005, this unit had not been titled up to that point, but did have 3.9K miles on it, dealer (Guaranty) had used it as demo. The dealer or WRV had it for a couple of months after we initially looked at the unit in Aug of 2005 and agreed to purchase on condition additional accessories were installed @ factory. Some where in the fogging bottom of my memory it seems I was made aware that the unit was built in Feb of 2005 (this may or may not be true). Have had alignment checked twice in 39K miles and there has not been any significant adjustments. Noted shoulder wear on both steer tires at about 10K miles, monkey'ed with air pressures, tire balancing, alignment check, etc. but wear continued, finally ditched the Toyo steer tires at 26K miles and replaced with Kelly KRH tires, bead balanced and have not noted any shoulder wear since.
The suspension fastner pattern on this unit is vertical, the same as the sketch. It's possible the factory could have made revisions in the 2 months before pickup, or maybe this unit is just an outlier. I thought the initial concern was +/-40 units centered around s/n 75317.
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:08 AM   #26
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My unit is 75330, I just crawled under it and checked. The bolts are 5/8. I cant see any signs of movement but it may not be evident. I will pull some bolts on each side to check for misalignment in the next few days. If both sides of the hanger are pushed back against the hanger before they were torqued , they may not have moved much. I am going to try and fix mine myself. After I check alignment if the bolt holes are not centered on the frame I may add 3 bolts on each side prior to dealing with the factory holes. It may requirer going to 7/8 bolts.

I do see some scuffing on the outside of the front RH tire with 24,000 on them. The coach now has 46,470 on it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:09 AM   #27
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So that's a known spread of 75254 to 75330 that need checking and possibly more at each end of that slot.

Wayne- if I was trying to change out the bolts, I'd have a machine shop knock out a couple of pilots, i.e. round steel w/a 5/8+ o.d. x 1/4"+ hi jumping to a 3/4+ o.d. x tower-plate-thickness+ hi, with a hole thru the middle for a 7/16 bolt and oversized washers. Jockey tower till the bolt holes (5/8 & 3/4) line up & insert pilot; temp bolt in place w/7/16 & oversized washers both faces. Because of the "+" on shoulder height, and the likely 1/16th oversized holes* for the 3/4 and 5/8 bolts originally contemplated by Neway and WRV respectively, the tower should be rotatable around the first pilot, and if you do a lower left, and upper right the tower should be centered on the bolt pattern. Then its a 3/4 hole saw from the tower side to enlarge the frame hole. The tower hole should contain the hole saw bit. Another cutting tool that might make 3/4 would be the fat Unibit but for 1/4" steel inside of a 3/4" hole you might have to start it from the outside, then finish from the inside. In any case you could finish and dress up w/a die grinder.
Gotta take the wheels off with the axle & frame properly blocked up to have reasonable access.
* Standard holes for bolts in this size range is 1/16th inch larger than nominal bolt shank diameter, so 3/4 bolt takes a 13/16 hole; 5/8 takes 11/16 hole. Actual practice followed by frame parts mfgr's may vary so check first.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:36 AM   #28
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Mike, good suggestions, I have a lathe in my trailer that I can turn some bushings on. I will pull a few bolts (attempt to) today to see what things look like. I will post my findings latter today.
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