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Old 11-03-2010, 09:14 AM   #71
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Excellent!

Well, I guess Im going to be one of the first DIY er's... I thank you for the torque numbers... That's one thing I did not get at Fastenal yesterday.

I have drilled one hole out from yesterday.

2 things are needed... One, you cannot mind tight places as you need to get on up in there. 2- When drilling, better be very careful not to have the drill bit "grab" toward the end of the drilling... or your going to break your wrist or squeeze your hand against a very tight space....

I am going from the inside out and not outside in.

The trick it seems is to perfectly line up the NEDWAY tower hole {3/4"} with the just drilled out frame rail.
Once you get the first one lined up, well............ it is hoped the rest will fall in line.....
I guess we will find out today.

Unfortunately, I think I got the "Nylock" nuts but Im putting the loctite on it also.... {I guess I figure the two together will probably make me more comfortable riding down the road...
Well today I will see how difficult it is to drill and then line up the other 5.
Im hoping the carbon drill bit and the cutting oil can do more then one.
Seems to me it will probably be more difficult after you use a drill bit once.
Thats some thick steel and Im guessing the wear is probably substantial on the drill bit...

I guess I will find out!

I did get the proper washer's. One thing, when you use those 2 washers... the bolt does not protrude past the end of the nut like the 5/8"th's bolts with the collars...
Im wondering if I should go 1 size longer or if being even with the nut is OK.
Or should the threaded bolt protrude just a bit past the nut ?
as of now, they are flush with the nut.

Lastly.... This is not a job for the faint of heart....You need some muscle and some steady nerves....
There's something about crawling under a 33,000 pound coach that is a little ...ah...... "Unnerving"........
Especially when your cranking out a suspension bolt.... in a tight place....
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:11 PM   #72
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Well, here is a look at the different 5/8th's and 3/4 inch bolts

everyone is talking about. I have the grade 8 bolt with a 8 grade washer's
and a Nylock nut. The nut is noticeably thicker because of the nylon insert.

My objective is to use the locktite compound and crank the "Nylock" nuts on..

But on second thought, they had another nut that was a "removable" that has some kind of pressure fit ... Either was equally good in the fastenal gentleman's opinion... But with the nylon lock at the very end of the bolt, I wonder if it is going to totally use the Nylon insert effectively....?
The Crome colored pressure fit nut was not as thick, so the bolt will definitely protrude past the end of the nut.. coupled with the loctite coumpound...It might be a better alternative...?

I have not put the loctite compound on the first one yet and cranked it all away in with major torque yet to see where it would end up...

....Decisions...... decisions......?
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:42 PM   #73
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Well, here is a photo of the DIY er's needs to change your own... Hopefully...?

The 35 ton jack is missing in the photo to "adjust" the nedway slightly to accept the 3/4" bolt...

Once you get the first adjusted, the rest should go easier.....Ah....HOPEFULLY
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Old 11-03-2010, 01:08 PM   #74
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Ok, So far so good...

I have two drilled through the chassis/frame and then a slight bit of work to align the Nedway tower 3/4 inch hole with it ...

Although I had to "fiddle" with it..... The 35 ton jack made easy transition of it and in short order I had the first one aligned and the 3/4 inch bolts pushed through and finger tight to the nylon bushing...

the second just pushed through... Boy THAT IT CERTAINLY a RELIEF!


so far the first one has made the second in line ...so Im feeling slightly "good' about it....But im not past the bee's and on to the honey yet!

Notice the difference between the 3/4" inch heads and the 5/8th's between.

I have not tightened down or put the loctite on the first 2...although I dont
think I better go any further till I make a decision one the 2 different nut approaches... Loctite and Nylock nut or loctite and pressure nut...???

Any suggestions???

Im going now to get them other nuts ... I'll go with whatever most everyone thinks is better...?
One thing about the pressure nuts... The fastenal gentleman said that they can be reused over and over... So I can snug the first 2 down without the loctite, just a degree or two....
This way if there is a slight bite of misalignment with the Neway tower, one can slightly loosen up the first few if needed and "persuade" the tower ...
with the 35 ton jack...

Then when I hopefully get all 6 aligned, I can take one out at a time and do the final loctite application and torque down.
With the nylocks, you cannot slightly snug the first few down and back it out... once on... that's it..... You can take it off but the nylon I guess would loose grip.

Well, when i get back from town maybe some one will have a few idea's on the nut deal... I'll get a photo of the that one too..
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Old 11-03-2010, 07:52 PM   #75
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Well I did 5 out of 6 on the passenger side today

I did not use the nylock nut but the other one they had. They mentioned "distorted thread" which immediately brought to mind what Engineer Mike had mentioned on page 5... I knew then I must be on the right track.

Seems these nuts thread a bit difficult and your pumping the arms...Thank God for that Massive socket wrench ! But i guess that is the purpose so they will not back off the bolt.
I went with the permatex "red" {same as loctite} for extra strong bond....

Cranked the torque to 150... {Thats all my torque wrench handles} Even at that I was with both feet on the pumpkin and both arms cranking hard till the "Snap" telling me i reached 150...
Then I got real serious and brought out the breaker bar and gave then a 1/4 to a half turn more...

Believe me, you better have some serious "yank" or "PULL" in you or you are NEVER going to reach 150 let alone 175..

The fastenal gentleman told me the torque ranges from 150 to 330 on these bolts depending on application...

I seriously dont know what I would do if they needed to be torqued to 300 plus pounds...... I dont think I got enough in me to reach that !

That 6th one Im going to let go for now... It's right in line with the pumpkin shaft. So you need to probably take the wheel off unless maybe a close quarters angle drill might get around it..not sure..

Looks like the other side has no obstructions....

I'll get an inside photo tomorrow.
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Old 11-04-2010, 08:15 PM   #76
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OK, We have 5 more drilled on the driver's side today and 4 - 3/4" bolts in place.
Im having a little more trouble lining up the last 2 on this side...

Maybe a bit tired from the dAy's action...Hopefully tomorrow I will have a easy time of lining them up... For some reason they are not quite lining up even with the 4 bolts in.

One thing I have found out.... A REAMER worker's MUCH MUCH better than a 3/4" drill.. The drill can drift and suddenly grab hard and put a hurting on you!
The reamer is a gradual cut or filing.. It does not grab like a drill and is better for centering the hole without drift...

If anyone is crazy enough to attempt this job themselves, I would strongly advise using the reamer over the drill bit.

This project is really close to finish.....

I wonder ...Has anybody else tried this job themselves???
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Old 11-05-2010, 09:49 AM   #77
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Not yet, I removed 4 bolts and inspected and then decided I would put it off until I got to my lot in Texas. I reinstalled the bolts and I am now in Texas. I plan on pulling the wheels and drilling (reaming using a 3/4 car reamer) from the tower side in. I decided to wait until I got to Texas because I have a lot more room, a level concrete pad. Fastenal and HF are just a few miles away. I still need a wheel dolly and 20 ton jack stands. I acquired a 700FT LB torque wrench and a torque multiplier to remove the wheels with.

This will end up costing me more than having it done but I will have the tools I wanted to safely remove my wheels and work under my coach.

Wingding I wonder about drilling from the frame side with a drill. Drills tend to wander and that is probably would happened on your last few holes. Since there is no evidence of my rear end having moved I question whether I should attempt to center the holes first.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:42 AM   #78
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Greetings Wayne,

The reamer is definitely the way to go... About lining up the outer Neway
3/4" hole with the inner frame 5/8th's ....

I absolutely have to have it centered... Because the reamer's cutting edges are farther down the shaft,it will have to extend out the nedway 3/4" hole...

If the newday hole is not centered with the 5/8th's frame holes, you will catch part of the 3/4" and drill a oval shape into it... and you dont want to touch that 3/4" hole!
Now a drill will have the cutting edge right on the forward tip...so the drill does not have to extend through the nedway 3/4" hole to do "SOME" cutting...

The drill can also drift though.. and the reamer is much quicker and reusable.

I have been dipping the reamer into cutting oil every 15 -30 seconds..

I think this is why im on the same reamer and I have read where they talk about many broken "drill bits" when they have this work down...

It sounds to me like the shops that have been doing the work are using drills instead of reamer's....?

Lastly, although I think I got lucky with the one side, lining up these holes on the nedway and the frame is a bit tricky.....

What I did was not torque the bolts down till all 6 were in... this will give you some play to work with. If a few are not lined up, you can use a variety of methods to try and entice to tower to slightly move a bit.
If the holes are close, I thread the bolt through even on a slight angle because when it bottoms out, it will line up the two from the PSI you apply with your socket wrench and the washer/nut pulling the two in line...

I hope that makes sense... I guess you will have to try it to see what I mean.
Once I had the one bolt screwed in on the passenger side on a hole that was slight not in line...after i started to tighten it down, it pulled the hole "inline" and made the last one i had to do perfectly in line.

That will be the biggest task- to line up the two.... NOT cutting the holes as I originally thought !

As for doing this from mthe outside in or inside out... it all goes on how you are in tight places with 33,000 pounds over you...
Some people just dont like that feeling...
For me... I just did not want to take the tires off and felt the coach would be much more stable with some jacks and I found some bravery to go underneath..
I will say one thing... You really learn a lot about the coach when you are "hands on".

700 foot pound torque wrench......... ? That is some SERIOUS torque wrench you got there!!!
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:39 AM   #79
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Wingding, I follow what you are saying. Is your reamer a tapered car reamer? Actually a hole saw would probably work good from the tower side.

After I get the wheels off I will be able to better assess what to do. I still need to bleed the inner brake port so I have a need to remove the rear wheels.

I bought the torque multiplier 1st and decided it was not practical to accurately tighten the lug nuts with it. I got the cheap Uncle Grubs torque multiplier with a 60:1 mechanical advantage. It works great for removing the lug nuts. The 700 LB torque wrench is 4 ft long and I can easily get the 450-500 FT Lbs required to torque the wheels with it. It also came in a nice case that fits neatly along side of one of my cargo trays.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:22 PM   #80
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Wayne,
Here it is.... and worth every penny... I think I will be able to use this on the next project... The steering bracket.... I hope?

It is a car reamer. I have been adding a slight amount of cutting oil as I go.

Sounds to me like a lot of service centers are drilled them out instead from all the broken drills we been hearing from the thread... This Reamer ...well you would have to make a MAJOR mistake to break it... It's very sturdy and patience is probably key with this... It's not like your drilling through a wooden board... I think maybe the RV shops were pushing a little hard with drills.. snap! either the wrist or the drill..!

Im thinking most are being drilled out... That's how they are breaking bits...
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:33 PM   #81
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Wayne,
what kind of torque are you going to go with?????

Notice how surprising low the torque is on those 5/8ths.....

I was thinking I was gonna have to really give it all to get them out but they are ....well....hardly tight as i would have believed... I did not even need a huge wrench or anything with extension... I kinda was wondering if that was just me or are these 5/8th's well under 150ft pounds of torque?

Maybe because they are 5/8th's....

Fastenal said the range on those 3/4" is 150 to 330 - something....they did have a "oil" and "dry" chart difference... The bolts you get with the coating are considered "Oiled" {I forget the alloy name but it is considered "Oiled'}
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Old 11-05-2010, 01:37 PM   #82
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I will probably torque them to the middle of the spec. I probably can use the 700 pound torque wrench if I put the nuts facing out. I will need to add 10% for the extensions needed to clear the side of the coach.

My 5/8 bolts were relatively tight. I used my 3/4 drive ratchet that has a 2 foot handle and I pulled quite hard on it to loosen them.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:17 PM   #83
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Middle of the spec...

IM guessing maybe that would be the 150- 330 lbs ?

would you be saying about 240 lbs ?

Maybe the fact im using a 1 inch drive socket wrench makes everything seem relatively loose or "not as tight" as I think it should be... Either way the torque on those 3/4" bolts will be a bit more.

Not sure what those 5/8th's were torqued in at but it seems to be a bit below 150 lbs.
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:10 PM   #84
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The torque values are all over the place. I looked it up for 3/4-10 grade 8 SAE and got 280 wet to 380- dry. http://www.uzengprod.com/Online%20Ca...cal%20Data.pdf . Our installation is a mainly a shear load and not a tension load so we should be able to stay on the low side 240FT LBS would be more than adequate including a 10/% percentage loss for extensions. Seems to me aircraft specs for 3/4-16 were 150 FT LBS. It has been a very long time since I dealt with those fasteners though.

I bet the 5/8 bolts seemed loose using 1 inch drive rachet or flex bar.
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