Community Forums

Stretch · 01-02-2007, 05:25 PM

Back in the 70s when fuel including diesel skyrocketed in price, there was a big rush to provide the HD truckers with a Propane injection system for their Cummins NTC 335 and 400 engines. The thinking then was that it would improve both mileage and power at the same time.
Well, we have the price increase problem here again. Goody for us we have a large propane tank already installed. It wouldn't take much to install a high pressure line back to the engine area and have it controlled by a 12volt solenoid and correctly sized orifice. A small pressure switch would be installed right below the throttle. Any enthusiasim for something like this?

Stretch · 01-02-2007, 05:25 PM

Back in the 70s when fuel including diesel skyrocketed in price, there was a big rush to provide the HD truckers with a Propane injection system for their Cummins NTC 335 and 400 engines. The thinking then was that it would improve both mileage and power at the same time.
Well, we have the price increase problem here again. Goody for us we have a large propane tank already installed. It wouldn't take much to install a high pressure line back to the engine area and have it controlled by a 12volt solenoid and correctly sized orifice. A small pressure switch would be installed right below the throttle. Any enthusiasim for something like this?

VAGABONDMAN · 01-02-2007, 05:37 PM

I INSTALLED A BANKS TURBO ON MY '98 ALPINE (MECHANICAL) AND THE GUYS AT FUEL INJECTOR SERVICES TRIED HARD TO GET ME INTO A PROPANE SETUP. THEORY IS THAT IT ADDS POWER AND RUNS COOL, SO IT SHOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM. HOWEVER, I'M NOT INTERESTED IN BUYING A NEW CUMMINS AND WOULD BE CHICKEN TO TRY IT UNLESS I COULD GET CUMMINS TO BLESS IT.

rockcj · 01-03-2007, 07:18 AM

Miss having my Alpine...

I installed a propane injection in my Excursion 7.3 PSD. you will not believe the power you get from it. I have researched so much but found out that there is a right way to do it without damaging anything on your vehicle. my excursion pulls 437 hp and 689 lbs at the rear wheel. I am doing it with cold air intake, 4" exhaust, Superchip Programmer and Powershot 2000 propane injection.

I would contact Powershot 2000 and see if they can make one for you. It too about 2 hours for my install at home.

David

Stretch · 01-03-2007, 01:59 PM

Thanks David I'll look into Powershot

Jim&MaryJo · 01-03-2007, 07:05 PM

I installed the Powershot system
http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/home.html

on my Safari Trek. It is not without controversy and Banks is a detractor from this modification.

I chose to do it primarily for for my woefully underpowered Isuzu diesel. It made a significant difference in climbing grades and the Trek has logged over 20K miles with the system. I did carefully adjust the amount of propane infusion on the conservative side.

As for mileage/fuel expense gains, I figured about a 10% improvement, offset by propane consumption. My conclusion at the time (5 years ago) was that the fuel gain wouldn't have justified the system.

I also researched other systems and believed the Powershot had the best components and safety features. Extreme caution is prudent with installation for obvious reasons.

Personally, I wouldn't consider it on my Alpine.

Stretch · 01-03-2007, 07:46 PM

Jim:
I can see where is would have helped your "woefully underpowered Isuzu", However not sure why that experience transfers negatively to an Alpine. I have read up a bit on the systems available now as compared to the ones I remember in the mid 70s. Now the systems have a turbo pressure controlled injection system. The higher the turbo pressure, the more propane is injected. And also it turns out, if I believe the propaganda, the engine runs cooler (slightly), gets better mileage (1 to 1-1/2 MPG, (thats 10 percent or more on our rigs) and propane helps the diesel burn more completely. Suposedly Cat condones the use of propane. I am tempted to try it cause the expensive part, the tank is already on board. Also the system seems simple enough to be something I can build and assemble in my garage. Looks like the heart of the system is the turbo pressure regulated pressure reducing valve. I wonder if they us the liquid propane valve or the gas propane valve to supply the system? A couple of 12 volt solenoid valves, some propane hose and some fittings, who know we might have 550 hp and a like increase in torque. Any thoughts?

Jim&MaryJo · 01-04-2007, 05:33 AM

Stretch,

I'd like the power, but my 34' can already make 60+ on a 6% grade and accelerate pretty good from a stop. I just don't have near the motivation I had with the Trek.

Couple of concerns would be:
--over-torqueing the tranny (I recall the Allison already limits 1st gear torque on the ISL, seems 1200ftlbs is approaching tranny limits.)
--Lot of cabling and hose to get from the controls/tank near the front to the back.
--Touchy install for the injector into the inter-cooler (you have to drill and avoid shavings which could be sucked thru the Turbo)
--I had a propane leak caused by a cracked brass coupler connecting components. It was done by a professional installer who should have supported the weight of components off the tank. They fixed it, but it was a wake-up call.
--Under load, I often wondered what was happening with EGT, despite the propaganda...
--It would make a big difference to me if Cummins blessed it, warranty issues.

On the other hand, bringing a "sleeper" to the homecoming drag races would be a lot of fun. Can you imagine the looks from the WRV techs..

Sammie · 01-04-2007, 01:48 PM

This propane injection system sounds like something I might be interested in for my new 2006 Journey with a Cat C7 350hp engine. I'm interested in more information. Who do I call for product information and installation?

Jim&MaryJo · 01-05-2007, 04:28 AM

here's a link to their dealers
http://www.dieselperformanceproducts.com/dealers.html

rockcj · 01-05-2007, 08:54 AM

first, the injection is through the intake. You take the intake hose out and drill so no shaving... The valve is always shut off when the ignition is off. It is activated everytime you start the vehicle (by you via switch). The tranny will take at least 200 lbs more torque so no worries there. The EGT is a bit lower in my case and last, the system can be removed in an hour. The system measures pressur from MAP sensor and the valve opens according to the pressure. Yes, you will have to run a hose from your engine to the tank and back to your intake.

Just my 2 cents. I would have done it to my Alpine if I still had it. People using it for racing will break things but who is racing Alpines?

Stretch · 01-06-2007, 01:23 PM

Sounds simple enough. Regarding the MAP sensor: Is a wire connected directly to the Map sensor itself? Or does it go thru the computer to pick off the manifold pressure info? I would be a little concerned about changing the signal voltage at the map sensor if a wire was installed piggy backing the wire going to the computer. Just curious cause I'm in the middle of installing Corvett fuel injection on an old chevy stepside pu. And I am finding our how sensitive all this electronic stuff really is.

rockcj · 01-06-2007, 08:40 PM

A tube is connected to the MAP sensor. That tube will send the pressure to the valve near the tank. There will be a solenoid at the with wire harness which will be connected at the dash. Other tube will send adjusted vapor to the intake right before the turbo. That is pretty much it. You will love it.

David

gjstacy · 01-08-2007, 05:21 PM

What! Do you mean you have never been to a Homecoming Rally in Yakima/Toppenish? Each year that the Homecoming Rally has taken place up there, WRV has sponsored a day at the drag strip, supplying 4 or 6 coaches for all of us to take turns drag racing down the track. What a hoot!!

Go to the alpinecoachassociation.com website, and you will be able to see pictures of our last races there in 2005.