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Old 04-20-2010, 05:05 PM   #43
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LED Dimmer Switch for LED Puck Light replacements

Hi All,

There are many here that have helped with bits and pieces of this puzzle, thanks to all of you!

From various suggestions on this and other forums, I bought some LED bulbs to replace the G4 halogen bulbs in our "puck" lights. I bought some from Prudent RV'er (http://wwwprudentrver.com). I got his G4.RV2-H, these are 120 lumens. And, I found some LED bulbs on Amazon from LED Wholesalers that were 140 lumens (Amazon.com: Warm White 140 Lumen G4 Base Side Pin 10 SMD LED, 10 Watt Holagen Bulb Replacemnt For RV Camper Trailer Boat Marine , 1109WW: Home Improvement).

The Amazon (LED Wholesaler) units are 1.200 inches diameter and 0.365 inches thick. Due to the larger diameter, I had to remove the factory pins and add one inch long "pigtails" between the LED and the pins (which then plug into the light fixture). The Prudent RV'er unit is 0.900" diameter and 0.320" thick.

Source Price Lumens Extra Soldering
Amazon $14.00 140 Yes
Prudent RV'er $19.95 120 No

The "color" of the bulbs is fairly close and I do not have a favorite between the two brands. In the following photo, the Prudent RVer bulb is on the left. The Amazon bulb, with my modifications, is on the right.

[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME%7E1/Mike/LOCALS%7E1/Temp/moz-screenshot.png[/IMG]

The dimmer is the more difficult part of the solution (difficult to find one that is small and.or easy to modify to fit). LED's need a PWM dimmer. This stands for Pulse Width Modulated. They are a 4-wire dimmer as compared to our existing 2-wire dimmer. I Googled up a bunch of dimmers but they all appeared too "deep" to fit into the approximate 1.4 inches I had in the cabinet behind the cover plate. Then I found one that can be fairly easily modified, if necessary to fit various depths. This is model KR6 from Kick Lighting (Cove Lighting, 12v LED dimmers, under cabinet lights * Kick Lighting). Click on the link for the KR6. Kick Lighting shipped within one business day of my order, via US Mail, and sent me a confirmation email.

In the photo below, the original 2-wire dimmer (for the halogen bulbs) is on the left.



The Kick Lighting web pages have good dimensional drawings of their 2 models. In April 2010, their prices were $16 each for the KR6 and $48 for the KR8. The KR6 has a mounting depth of 1.8 inches and the KR8 a depth of about 1.25". Considering the price savings, I decided that I could make the KR6 work for me! I modified one of them as shown below to install it in a particularly shallow spot. The other two KR6's fit in their original configuration.

The output of the KR6 dimmer has two connections. Each string of lights in our coach (2 bulbs or 4 bulbs) are wired in parallel and then connected to the KR6. Said another way, you could take the two pins of your LED bulb and insert them right into the out (+) and out (-) connectors.

In the following photo, the "modified" (for less depth) KR6 is shown.




So, there you have it! We replaced the 4 halogen bulbs over our sofa and their old style dimmer, the 2 halogens over the dining table and that dimmer, as well as the 2 halogens over the recliner and that dimmer. The LED bulbs take about 1.75 watts or 0.14 amps each as compared to 10 watts each for the old halogen bulbs. So, for dry camping, this should save a lot of power. We have not yet taken a camping trip to see just what we think of the new setup, but I will re-post after we get some experience with the new LED bulbs and dimmers.

Cheers!
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Old 04-21-2010, 10:50 PM   #44
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Mike:

On those dimmers, are they rotating or momentary?

I bought mine from Prudent RVer (Lightblasters), $16. They slip up into the void and are wired to any momentary switch (which I mounted into the old plate). To dim, I have to hold the momentary switch until they start to dim, then release. It takes some practice and the dimming cycles come about 8 seconds apart (annoying). I'd prefer a rotary-style or sliding dimmer. Ideas?
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Old 04-23-2010, 07:38 PM   #45
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takepride,

This is a rotary dimmer with an "off" position after a click. In other words, when it's Off, you turn it a bit, hear and feel a click, then the lights are full on, then keep turning and the lights go to very dim, then off again. Rotating backwards, the lights come on a tiny bit, keep getting brighter as you turn and then you feel that you are up against the "clicker" when they are very bright. If you turn more, you click into the Off position.

So, they are rotating, not momentary. And it is a "one switch does all", it isn't used in conjunction with another item (other than the bulbs you are controlling.)

I'll be back home in a week (up in Alaska now) and we're going dry camping for 4 days from 4/29 to 5/3. So, the LEDs and dimmers will get their first good workout then and I'll report more after that trip.

Cheers!
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:34 PM   #46
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M & M;

Great write up and photos - reading it gave me the knowledge (and confidence) to tackle mine.

Can you "see" the difference in the 120 and 140 Lumens? From what I have found the 10 watt Halogen were about 120 L and I'd like to go a little brighter so am leaning towards the LED Whoslesalers unit although I now know I'll have to do some soldering.

Thanks'

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Old 05-19-2010, 02:02 PM   #47
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Hi Harold!

I've been trying to think of the right word to indicate that, yes, I do see a slight difference in brightness with the 140 lumen bulbs. Then I did some math in my head and determined that we're talking less than 20% difference and that WOULD be a bit difficult to quantify. So, if you like to solder, I'd suggest going with more lumens!

I do owe the group an answer to whether the LED bulbs "dim" when other loads are applied (such as turning on the faucet and activating the water pump). When the batteries are getting a bit low, then Yes, the LED bulbs do noticeably dim a bit. But, since I replaced the halogens in 3 locations (8 total LED bulbs) I forgot that I could have turned on the two remaining halogens up in the front (under the TV cabinet as I recall or near the fans) to see if this "dimming" affected them also. So, not quite definitive yet but I'd still be comfortable suggesting people go for it.

The "color" of the LED bulbs is quite nice, even approved of by the missus. The rotary dimmer switch seems to do most of it's dimming in a small range of movement, then not much dimming in a large range of it's movement. But, you just turn it slowly and it's easy to adjust the amount of light from the LEDs.

As far as the soldering, I heated up the solder pads enough to remove (and save) the original pins that were meant to be inserted into the puck light fixture. Then I added a couple of inches of thin stranded wire, then soldered the saved pins to the end of that wire.

Hints and Kinks:
I did blow one fuse and determined that the inside of the puck fixture is most likely conductive (maybe the reflective coating) so I put a think piece of rubber fabric between the fixture reflector and the back of the LED bulb. You can buy this thin rubber at Orchard Supply Hardware in CA or probably an auto parts house (gasket material?)

In the original Alpine wiring, with the dimmer made for the halogen bulbs, there was an electrolytic capacitor in the circuit near each of the 3 existing dimmers. I ended up removing it from the circuit when I rewired things for the LED bulbs.

All in all, I'm quite happy with the outcome of the project.

Cheers!
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Old 05-19-2010, 11:04 PM   #48
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Mike(s):

Thanks for identifying what that thingy in the wiring is. I just left mine alone. Not sure how it affects the LEDs. No problems thus far. Opinions?
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:46 PM   #49
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Outside Rear View Mirrors - well I am going to pass along a tip to everyone, (some may know how to do this already and the proper adjustment).

The MH outside rear view mirrors (RVM) need to be adjusted so they just clear the outside of the coach. So the one on the passenger side needs to be adjusted so you have 1/8" clearance outside of the awning and the driverís side needs to be 1/8" outside the edge of the coach. To do this assuming all have the correct Allen wrench size and have removed the little plastic covers, I suggest the following.

For the passenger side, the thickness of the awning is about the thickness of a 2x4 X 4' long - lying on its flat side alongside the MH, and up to and just about to touch the mirror. Remove the little plastic plugs with a small straight screwdriver. Put a touch of PB Blaster in the holes and let it sit for 5 minutes to ensure the Allen set screws are free to un-screw out a tad. Move the mirror out (or in) as necessary to allow the 2x4 to be next to the mirror plus 1/8" clearance. Now tighten the Allen set screws and replace the little plastic plugs and this side is done.

Drivers side - use a 1/8" thick piece of plywood or paneling and do the same thing on the driverís side. Tighten up the Allen set screws and replace the plastic plugs and the job is complete. Now I would go inside the coach, turn on the key and adjust the mirrors angle so you have the correct viewing angle for traffic.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:03 PM   #50
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Thanks Old Rv'er! My mirrors have been positioned almost perpendicular to the side of the coach ever since I purchased it (used). They've made me very nervous when passing trucks or other motorhomes because they stuck out so far.

Using your directions, the DS mirror is not 100% visible due to the corner windshield post. Does that sound correct to you?
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:15 AM   #51
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Bob:

My DS mirror sits fully in my view and is slightly inside of Monty's measurements. Of course seeing the mirror is paramount.

If yours is "perpendicular" to the coach, are you looking out the side window? I think you'll find that if looking out the front window, but not blocked by the windshield frame, the mirror will be partially inside the side plane of the coach.
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Old 07-30-2010, 05:28 PM   #52
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Adjusting them to fit the body style of the coach also must play into the equasion listed above. On my MH, it works out to do as I described, on some other models, you have to take into consideration the way the front drivers area is situated and make amends. You can check your state DOT to determine the maximum width limit, and adjust the mirrors accordingly, however, keeping them as close to to side of the coach, and taking into consideration objects which stick out from the side of the coach is the best bet.
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Old 09-17-2010, 02:30 AM   #53
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All – I have read many of the forums on this site, and have learned by that reading those posts that many of us don’t do everything we could to help our MH’s stay in top shape. I am not so much talking about maintenance as I guess good mechanical care.

For instance – Onan says the generator should be used two hours a month at half load to keep all the seals and parts lubricated correctly. I try to use mine more than that, although we have not boondocked as a rule. The storage place we keep our coach does not have power installed so to keep the batteries up, I go over and run the genset to charge them, yeah it’s a waste of fuel, but then by doing it that way, I am abiding by Onan’s suggestions. My Genset has never failed to start, and lately since using it more, it works better than ever. The oil needs to be changed yearly but then that is the Maintenance part and this is not what I wanted to say here.

For instance – do you run the A/C’s or heat pumps at least one hour or more a month even when not using the coach? My manual says they should be used for at least 30 minutes a month, so when I’m running the genset above, to make up for that “half load” the a/c’s or heat pumps provide that requirement and I’m doing another thing to keep my stuff working correctly.

For instance – How often do you check and lubricate the entry step – you know the one that goes out and in when you open the door. Yeah parked for days on end it just stays out, so where is the need? Does the wind blow? Are you at the beach? If the answer is yes, then sand and salt spray accumulates on the hinge points of the step and can cause it to start to act slowly. A little machine oil on all those points will give it new life, help the motor last longer and you feel better for it. Kwikee recommends maintenance monthly. NOTE: Make sure you turn off the coach power with the step extended, to do the oil process. Trust me, if it closes and your finger is in the way, you won’t need the finger it’s been cut off. Turn off the power so you don’t get hurt. This maintenance takes about 15 minutes. The coach should be up on blocks or secured in some way so the air bags don’t deflate and you don't get crushed too!!!!!
http://www.kwikee.com/Adocuments.html#steps

For Instance – Now I know running the main engine to just run it is bad, and driving is better for it, so how do we do it when parked. Well, first it’s a good idea to take it someplace at least once a month or 45 days of so. Run it 50 miles at least, this gives it a chance for all the things, engine, tyranny, wheel bearings, and all the other stuff to get up to operating temperature. If nothing else, and moving is not an option, start it up and let it run at fast idle for at least 8-10 minutes. WAIT, the air bags will pump up and unlevel the coach, yeah, and this means you must put in the slides, store the jack’s doesn’t it. Guess what again, those manufacturers say, that monthly, the slides and jacks should be cycled, cycling means just that, store them if they are down, or put them down if they are up, and then store the slides or put them out when the rig is in storage. This keeps fluid in all the moving parts like it should be. Again try to do this monthly or at least 45 days or so. Usually we move the coach when using it more often than that, but when we were in Florida last year while I was in school, I did it anyway even though the coach was stuck for 10 weeks.

For instance – what about those electronics, they actually need exercise too, and more so it you live near the ocean or in a dusty environment. When running that genset above, turn on the TV, scan for channels, watch TV, and flip through the screens whatever. Use if for 30 minutes or so, won’t hurt it a bit, and it will drive moisture out of the circuit board and keep it dry inside. Technology will change 10 times before you will cycle the TV enough to hurt the solder connections by doing this. Have you not noticed, TV keep getting better and better, and we have those old ones hanging around. We have a Pioneer 26” which was the best TV you could buy 23 years ago, now the darn thing won’t die, and just keep going and going and going, what is a body to do. This exercise includes the satellite receivers, Kingdome, Bedroom TV, and whatever other electrical devices built into the coach. Turn on the dash radio as well, let it run. Also set the time on the microwave and heat up two or three cups of water so it gets used as well. I turn on the ignition switch and put the coach in reverse to check the camera, and cycle the blinkers as well. Keeps the lubricant on that knob worked in to the mechanism.

For instance – Do you have a hydro hot type furnace/hot water system? Yep, you guessed it, it needs to run for at least one hour a month when not in general use. So while you are watching TV, running the genset, cycling the A/Cs, you can just turn on the diesel burner and let it get all the way hot. Turn on both zones and let heat run into the coach for 5 minutes, if you have water in the coach, run the hot water faucets for a minute or so. Yeah that water pump needs to be used as well. An LP furnace needs to run as well, so turn on the LP, start that furnace and let it run until the dust has burned off the combustion chamber, and at least let it cycle twice. This should also be done monthly or so. Trust me, when you need it, it will run for you and not cause problems. Darn thing is going to be hot inside, so you guess it, open all the windows, wipe down the tracks this cleans them, and works that rubber a little so as to keep the natural oil in it. What do you know wonders never cease do they?

For Instance - Keep a little water in the gray and black tank so the seals on the drain valves don’t dry out. Yeah, keep a little water in the bottom of the toilet bowl as well, the wipe seal needs to be kept wet that is its job. And if you store it over the winter and it can freeze use RV Antifreeze in the toilet bowl, the holding tanks gray/black, the sink traps and shower trap. If stored in winter all these tips should be done monthly. Take it someplace and use it a weekend. So what if you have to blow the water out of it again, you paid thousands for the thing, treat it like it’s a precious jewel, because we all spent enough on them. HH/AH says to fill up the unit's hot water side with RV antifreeze if you are going to store it, over the winter, that would be in addition to blowing all the water out of the system first. That device needs to be filled with RV Antifreeze, trust me, we saw lots of them whose interior pipes had frozen and needed to rebuilt in the factory. The cost for that little repair is around 6 thousand dollars, so keep that in mind. If you don’t or cannot do this one thing, get a certified AQ/HH tech to do it for it for you. If you have the antifreeze all you are then paying for is labor, and it should not take but an hour or so.

For instance – battery operated devices, i.e., remote controls or such like. Yep, if it’s stored for over two weeks and those are not used, take the batteries out of them. Put them all in a plastic zip lock sandwich bag in the refrigerator, and then when you need them, they are still full of power and the bag keeps them dry.

For Instance – SMOKE DETECTOR Batteries – we leave ours with batteries in all the time, in storage or not, as you never know when something might set it off, and hopefully someone will hear it and call the fire department. When we take it out at the beginning of the season and that for us is within a month. We change those batteries to brand new ones, and throw away the ones which have been in those devices for at least a year. We carry spare batteries of the following types: Size D; Size C; Size AA; Size AAA & 9 Volt. We have various flashlights, and other stuff which uses those sizes. We carry at least 6 of each size and for AA & AAA 12 each, since we have small flashlights and remotes which use them.

For Instance – Other things. I clean the windshield glass about once a month when in storage, also the rearview mirrors. I will wash it right before we take off if it’s not raining here, we have a special coating on the paint but I use Protect-All on the thing anyway it protects the fiberglass sides. I use Rain-X on the windshield so the water runs off.

For instance – How often do you clean up the battery compartment? I try to do mine about every six weeks, wiping off the top of all the batteries with a solution of baking soda and water. I dry them off, and treat the cables with NO-OX-ID electrical grease so corrosion won’t form on the terminals. I try to get rid of any white power forming on any of the metal parts of the battery housing using that baking soda solution to neutralize it. Keep it out of the cells of the batteries because it will kill those same batteries. This compartment get dirty and so I need to do work in there often, so when I do it, I try to do other things that need to run so I am making the most out of my time.

Hopefully I have given you some tips on how to make your Motorhome last longer and give you more pleasure, and if the pleasure part is gone, it will at least keep all its parts running so you can get a good price when you decide to sell it. Sitting and not being used is as bad as not doing the maintenance as requried. Machinery needs to run so it works correctly.

Happy Camping!
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:30 PM   #54
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Monty:

Sounds like a good routine, and a candidate for another checklist. Your plan is a great use of time. Fortunately, my coach rarely gets more than three weeks to relax. If I have it my way, it rests only 10-12 days between trips (even if many are just short trips).

Take care.
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Old 09-17-2010, 11:49 PM   #55
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It seems I wore out the little lady last year keeping her away from home for 7 months. Now I cannot get her out of the house. So come 10/1/2010 it's going on a trip if I have to go by myself.

Then, our rains seem to have begun albeit low key for now, but enough of it, to dampen my spirits so by the end of October, i will be ready to get out of here.

Nevertheless some of those things need to be done even if you are using the coach, as being in a RV park, the genset does not get used and still needs that two hours a month. Most everything else gets used so then it's try to be creative on what to let the generator do.
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Old 09-18-2010, 12:07 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Rv'er View Post
Most everything else gets used so then it's try to be creative on what to let the generator do.

Disconnect from shore power and give the following a whirl....

Fridge, A/C, TV's (all) AND MICROWAVE!

that should work her in pretty good! i run all of those for 30 min after the gen warms up a bit. the microwave i let run for 5 on 5 off, aside from it sitting at the mechanic for 7 months and my coils rusting over on the generator, this workout seems to do the trick!

Note: if your generator sits too long without running, it's not the motor you will be replacing but the "generator" itself, the power maker. moisture forms on copper faster than on steel or aluminum, so if moisture collects on your copper inside the generator it will rust faster too. Once rust covers your coils and magnet windings there will be not current passing through the two phases so no output... i had to tear mine out, sand down the copper with a long stick and sandpaper, WD40, more sandpaper and then blew it all out... WORKS GREAT NOW!! LOL
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