Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-29-2011, 03:51 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
dshogman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 341
Rear axle bolt issue??

Just a head's up for everyone -
Yesterday went up to Grants Pass to visit Hendersonís. I was getting distinct pulling to the left when braking. After the test drive, the tech knew exactly where to look, and it wasnít at the front brakes. It was the rear axle and those new bolts put on last year. Somehow or other, some had loosened ever so slightly but enough to allow the rear axle to move on braking. So they replaced all the bolts, red Loctite and torque on both ends of the bolts, and did alignment again. And no more pulling. Also no charge except for the new bolts (at 50% discount). Henderson's are good people.
__________________

__________________
David Horn, TX; 2014 40ft Phaeton QTH; 2014 Mazda CX5; 2013 Can-AM Spyder RT-S on TandemTow trailer; Traveling with Ringo (an English Cocker)
dshogman is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-29-2011, 07:29 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
When doing the rear axle hanger bolt fix (3/4" bolts for the OEM 5/8" bolts discussed here), make sure whoever does it installs the correct bolts, and installs them correctly. No point in doing this twice, as with Dave's situation above. Bolts should be Grade 8, shoulder bolts on outside of frame, and inside should be grade 8 deformed thread type lock nuts w/grade 8 flat washer. Torque correctly (I'm guessing 175ft-lbs w/out consulting a reference,but the installer should know or you are using the wrong installer), and use permanent thread locker (which drops the book torque a bit as it acts like a lubricant). Once on they shouldn't wander. Ever. or ever.
__________________

__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2011, 06:33 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Birddog Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Mike,
I was wondering, when one does a complete rear alignment would you recommend using all new hardware for the repositioned rear attach fittings? The reason I ask goes back about three years to a bad experience at Kaiser's in Eugene when it took them three attempts before they got the Alpine aligned. During the first visit they completely aligned the front and reported that the rear should also be aligned. Dah, that’s what I requested when I took it there. They said they didn’t have the time for the rear that day and to bring it back. The rear alignment was done during the second attempt and produced a rather violent pull to the right. I told them about the pull, and they said to bring it back. On the third try they took all the new alignment out from the first, front-only, session and just did the back. I guess the question then would have been why did they realign the front in the first place? Anyhow, it finally it tracked properly. I did the third road test myself, with the owner’s son, just to make sure before we headed south. One would think for a highly regarded shop such as Kaiser’s they would have had their act together the first time around. From all appearances this alignment operation was strictly a trial and error approach – several errors. That, and apparent confusion, on their part didn’t present a very professional operations picture.

When we got back to San Diego I took the coach to East County alignment for a brake fluid flush and during their work on the rear brakes they found a couple of the suspension bolts loose. Apparently Kaiser didn’t use the washers they had removed, and just tightened the nuts down to the bottom of the threads; leaving the bolts free to rotate. Obviously no torque wrenches used in this operation. Real quality work wouldn’t you say?

With all the recent discussions on the Forum regarding the rear suspension bolt size issue, and now your suggestions on bolt quality; I’m a bit concerned about just what else Kaiser might have done, or not done properly, when they were messing around loosening and realigning the rear suspension. I’m thinking it might be a good idea to replace all rear hardware even though the Kaiser alignment was almost three years ago, and the coach drives just fine with no abnormal tire wear on any of the tires. Any opinions…?

__________________
Dick
2006 Alpine 36' FDTS
Birddog Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2011, 06:56 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Old Scout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,932
EM--Help me out here. How do you "align/re-align" the rear suspension on our Alpines? The bolt holes in the frame are fixed and so are the holes in the suspension brackets. Save for a bit of bolt slop in the holes, how much can you actually change the rear alignment? And if you to manage to induce some twist between the frame and the suspension brackets, arent you now expecting the bolts to remain tight and hold the "twist"? Thought this is how all this got started when the smaller 5/8" bolts wouldnt keep the larger 3/4" holes in the frame and suspension in alignment????
PS--and dont get me started on how shimming a solid front axle on a coach with air bag suspension changes the camber or castor geometry. My gut tells me Alpiners are spending a lot of money on alignments that dont really do much.
__________________
Old Scout
2003 40' MDTS
Garden Ridge, Texas
Old Scout is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-01-2011, 05:43 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Birddog Pilot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 288
Old Scout,

Check the Holland/NEWAY ADL Series Maintenance and Parts List, ADL-120-7, XL-AD400-01, on pages 8 & 9, “Axle Alignment;” this covers the rear suspension alignment procedure. As explained to me by Kaiser in Eugene, this rather involved procedure required grinding off the original alignment blocks welded to the equalizing beam plates; and then repositioning and re-welding new blocks after the alignment had been set. According to Kaiser this is common practice in the alignment industry and is the method of realignment required by the Holland/NEWAY folks. I was just taking Kaiser’s word that this was standard operating procedure for alignment of the rear suspension; although prior to their third attempt to align the coach I did verify their procedures with my NEWAY maintenance manual. It is my belief, that to facilitate the welding procedure, Kaiser probably removed the frame bracket assemblies and this is where they were not re-bolted correctly to the chassis frame. I do not believe the neglect in not placing washers on two of the frame bracket-to-chassis frame bolts was the fault of WRV. It was the opinion of East County Alignment here in Santee, CA, who discovered the missing washers that resulted in two loose bolts, that it appeared these bolts had recently been removed and reinstalled.
__________________
Dick
2006 Alpine 36' FDTS
Birddog Pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:06 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Scout- alignment of the rear axle should be a fairly permanent thing. And yes, if the OEM alignment was done correctly the bolt holes should have everything pretty darn close. However, everything has tolerances.

When WRV wrote instructions for the 5/8 to 3/4 bolt exchange, they drew a diagram showing a jacking setup to push the axle to the proper alignment. There has to be some slop in the system from the start, since 3/4" bolt holes are 13/16" by standard specs. When drilling new holes, the odds of getting them right as to diameter is improbable using manual equipment & methods, so the field fit slop is probably larger.

Using "standard" bolts with a length too long will definitely screw you up. Per your Machinery's Handbook, you'll find a 5/8" bolt has a standard thread length of 1.5", so a 2" bolt will have 1/2" smooth shank plus 1.5" threads. So you have to be clamping metal fatter than 1/2" or you don't get any clamping force out of the assembly (the nut bottoms out on the threads before it presses the bolted parts together). For 3/4" the standard thread length increases to 1.75". So when ordering bolts it is necessary to consider the finished thickness of clamped parts and specify a bolt length that will fit up properly. My guess is Kaiser got some of the correct length bolts (probably all the supplier had on hand), and some too long to complete the piece count, but didn't calculate actual grip thickness vs. smooth shank length before fitting up.

IIWM & there was any slop in the rear attachment, I'd replace all hardware w/new. For the price of 12 bolt setups, vs. the installation wear using deformed thread type keeper nuts (which a true nut-nut would refer to as "prevailing torque nuts, all metal") and the cost of going thru this a second (or 3rd...) time, the $50 or so in hardware is an economy. Assuming you get the correct hardware. And I wouldn't have any grief over using one Grade 8 washer under both the bolt head & nut (two each), which at 3/4" size should be ~1/4" of shim. Might even be good to order it that way in case some tech w/a sub-standard mental grip orders too-long bolts.

I had to consider the above when putting together fastener sets for the steering bracket upgrade kits so the thread grip range would work under all circumstances. Wasn't rocket science, so I could do it. Hopefully those changing out 5/8 bolts for 3/4's will pay attention also.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 01:47 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 22,799
"Red Loctite"

I think the person who invented that should be nominated for sainthood!!!!!!

Blue and Green are good too (As required)

Base plate bolts on my towed, back when I had one, were well on their way to OH )(*!@#!!!! when we checked them and applied two things.

Locktite and a torque wrench in that order.

For those who have never used it.

Makes nuts go on the bolt like it was oiled first.

Wait a few hours and they come off..... Like they were cross threaded (that's blue) or Welded on (red)
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2011, 09:29 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Heat from a propane torch will kill red loctite so you can remove fasteners so equipped. Had to do that on a steering kit I misaligned. Replaced the fasteners w/new ones after correct alignment.
__________________

__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rear axle gaskets Captain Bud Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 16 07-08-2008 09:00 AM
f-53 chassis with rear axle thrust out of whack independence2005 MH-General Discussions & Problems 1 12-05-2007 07:28 AM
Rear axle tires wearing on inside? MojaveJoe 5th Wheel Discussion 12 11-16-2007 03:56 PM
Rear Axle Leak quadfather Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 7 09-18-2005 08:46 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.