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Old 10-22-2011, 11:45 AM   #1
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Replace Apex Smart-Bed touch pads with rocker switches

Other than the large ones on Apex production unit 1 (Lyle & Cathy Fuller), the touch pads that control the Smart-Beds from the sides of the coach were very unreliable and can be replaced with small rocker switches I got from West Marine. I will try and get the Cole-Hersee part number. The following pictures pretty much explain how to do it. Not too bad a project but be careful and measure 3 times and cut once. A screw up can be very expensive to have repaired and painted.
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Old 10-23-2011, 08:10 AM   #2
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"touch pads .....can be replaced with small rocker switches I got from West Marine. I will try and get the Cole-Hersee part number. "

I got the switches and end plates at West Marine:

SPDT Switch, M-ON/OFF/M-ON Positions, No Pilot Light, 3 Blade Terminals
COLE HERSEE 58027-04-BP

The end plate part number is shown on the pictures. You need 2 snapped together per side to make an enclosure for 2 switches.

The touch pads were easy to pry off. Heck, I had replaced them 5 or 6 times before. No heat.

As to the wiring, the center posts of the switches are jumpered together and get 12V from the basement light switch in the entry way. Each of the other 4 wires go to the coil of one of 8 small relays on the forward wall of hydraulic compartment. So, when you press the switch (or touch pad before), the relay closes and 12v is applied to open the appropriate HWH solenoid valve and also turn on the primary pump.
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Old 10-23-2011, 01:53 PM   #3
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Thank you Basil, I will get the switches over the river in OR maybe today, if they have them in stock. It will be a winter project, don't want to take my Fein with me though to cut out the hole, maybe buy cheap one at HF.
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Old 10-23-2011, 05:42 PM   #4
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The cheap one at HF ain't worth it. I can hold the "vibrating" end still w/my fingers. Try a "reconditioned" Dremel unit off Amazon. I think mine was $55 and came w/the usual blades that come in the OEM kit. I carry it in the coach when we travel. Sounds like a good project while@Qzite to me.

Interesting how they wired the pads differently than the SE's. My rocker switches are all DPDT; I've always assumed one pole was for pump motor and the other for the respective solenoid valve. Sounds like Apexes are SPDT wired to a relay or relays that power the two parts, pump & valve.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:12 AM   #5
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EM - need to get the switches tomorrow, schedule went off the chart today. Ok on the HF model, don't want to haul my FIEN tool with me, and don't have time to fix it here before I am trying to take trip, so it might have to wait, or rent one someplace. The SB according to Silverleaf in my coach dont go through relays, they are wired directly to the pump and valves so they can be opened without HWH controller working. WRV's thought process was the owner needs access to the SB regardless of if the HWH control system is working, wiriing it this way means they work all the time unless no power/voltage is present.

That also is the reason I believe Basil's came on by itself, the switch might be bad or something. I was told there are no relays in this circuit at least for the SB's.

The slides on the other hand do have them and that is why my vanity slide won't work with the silverleaft system, but will work using the switches on the HWH panel, it bypasses the relays. This all assumes I completely understand your statements, and because I'm stupid, I don't get the relay's thing very well, and diagnosing them for me is an issue.
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Old 10-24-2011, 12:38 AM   #6
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Monty- Per Basil's post, his pad switches went to 8 relays to power HWH stuff. I'm guessing yours are the same.

Basil- just spit balling: could be the one-wire switch powers two coils (i.e jumpered to two relays) or it could be first relay coil from switch powers pump or solenoid thru that relay's contacts, then there is a second relay to power the solenoid or pump respectively off the first relay's load side (these relays are ~86ohms so ~0.15A added to the load which wouldn't be a big deal).
The pump is only powered thru the pump solenoid (pump amps are ~70 w/a spike of ~125A on startup iirc from an earlier amp probing on mine when I installed the Cole-Hersee 24059 in lieu of ordering another of the cheapo Trombetta's that are HWH OEM, and therefore too high for powering thru switch & 16/14 or 12GA wire). Valve solenoids are ~10A by my calculation (~1.3ohms), and have 15A fuses in line on my rig which would be a good match.

Good luck on the intermittent. Buen noche.
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Old 10-25-2011, 08:52 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EngineerMike View Post
The cheap one at HF ain't worth it. I can hold the "vibrating" end still w/my fingers. Try a "reconditioned" Dremel unit off Amazon. I think mine was $55 and came w/the usual blades that come in the OEM kit. I carry it in the coach when we travel. Sounds like a good project while@Qzite to me.

Interesting how they wired the pads differently than the SE's. My rocker switches are all DPDT; I've always assumed one pole was for pump motor and the other for the respective solenoid valve. (I think that is true) Sounds like Apexes are SPDT wired to a relay or relays that power the two parts, pump & valve.
Actually not! There are two ways to operate the Smart-Beds on an Apex:
1)Apex & SE big DPDT rocker switches
On my coach and I assume SE is similar, an in-line 40 amp fuse protects a master power rocker switch (at least on my coach) which provides 12V to a fuse block with 8 15 amp fuses , which provides 12V to the center of each of 8 DPDT switches (4 slides in & out, 4 Smart-Beds in & out). The master power switch provides some security for the S/B's when off. SE have one?

2) Apex only touch pads or owner installed small DPST switches
The basement light switch in the entry way not only turns on the basement lights but also provides 12V to a small warning light above the door and the center of touch pads (or rocker switches) on the outside walls of the dinette & galley slides. To move a S/B in or out, 12V is sent to the coil of the appropriate relay in a bank of 8 on the forward wall of the hydraulic bay. Relay closes and 12V goes to the HWH solenoid valve and also the pump (spliced together). S/B should move. There is an in-line 20 amp fuse that provides 12V to the relays.
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Old 10-19-2016, 08:48 PM   #8
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I was all set to do this replacement, having purchased the switches and bezels from West Marine but had pause because although the switch may be weather resistant, there seems to be a gap in the toggle which could allow rain water or wash/rinse water to enter the wall through the gap. Has anyone come up with another solution for this issue?
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Old 10-19-2016, 11:47 PM   #9
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Mine are installed inside the bay doors. 2 in the sanitation department on drivers side. Other 2 inside opposite side. No water problems.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:27 AM   #10
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Jim, the ones you have "inside opposite side" are they inside by the stairs or inside the HWH bay like our are?
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:13 PM   #11
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I moved mine away from the front HWH area and to the back where the doors access the tanks on one side and the sanitation area on the other. I'll send pictures when I get a chance in the next day or so. When the slides are out it's easy to get to the switches without bending down under the open slides.

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Old 10-23-2016, 07:48 PM   #12
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I'd really like to see the mounting you did in the tank bay, Jim. I'm also thinking about asking the tech's to look into mounting a pair of switches for the passenger side smart beds right above the HWH bay in that wood cabinet next to the passenger seat. Maybe in front where the awning controls are. It shouldn't be too hard to splice into the existing switch wiring and fish it into that cabinet I wouldn't think.
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Old 10-23-2016, 09:58 PM   #13
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I'll get back to you on the pictures in a day or two when we get home. The problem with mounting drawer switches inside anywhere for the drawers is that sometimes when you have the jacks higher or lower on one side or the other that the chassis is flexed and you stand a chance of hitting the slide tabs or sometimes the dinette slide bottom, and wouldn't know it from inside. I have had that problem and was there to stop the drawers before damaging the slides.
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