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Birddog Pilot · 07-08-2013, 02:45 PM

I believe I've seen other postings on this subjct, but I'm unable to locate them. After driving several hours today we pulled into a rest area and just before coming to a complete stop the warning beeper went off and the Silverleaf panel annunciated a series of ten J1939 Data Link Error messages. All of the Miles, Date & Time, and Temperatures were the same for all ten annunciations. Only the LD (% of Load) and RPM varied from the first indication of 0% Load at1100 RPM to 20% Load at 650 RPM.

Here's the strange part, the only annunciation on the dash warning panels was the red seatbelt light. I definiitely did not see a Check Engine or any other warning lights. Of course that doesn't , mean there couldn't have been other momentary lights, Check Engine, Low Fuel Pressure, etc., but if so they were only momentary and did not trigger the Silverleaf to list a particular fault. Probably about 10 seconds after observing the seatbelt light it went out and everything appeared normal. We drove another hour or so to our destination with no further problems.

I called Silverleaf and they said the J1939 Data Link Error looks at engine and transmission related problems, but having the system indicate such a rapid (all same time and date) series of error codes probably indicates a connection problem. He was totally stumped as to why the red searbelt warning light came on as it definitely is not engine or transmission related.

Okay, anyone had a similar occurrence and any ideas where these connections are located? The Silverleaf technician said their system is connected through the Vansco; this obviously would create additional troubleshooting adventures.

kraig · 07-08-2013, 11:05 PM

I don't know if this any help to you. I have the 425 smog engine with the Silverleaf. I know Alpines are not all the same. I have no warning lights on the dash, with all my warnings coming through the Silverleaf. I have no warning light at all for the seat belt.

On my engine all the external wiring comes off the right side of the engine block about in the middle. There is a rectangular plug with about 20 spaces with plugs and wires coming out of it. In the center of the plug, there is a metric allen screw that holds male/female connected tight together. I have had mine apart to add a regen switch. I had to buy metric socket allen wrench. I would think your engine would have same type of plug. Maybe you could check that the plug is tight and all the wires coming out of it are secure.

Birddog Pilot · 07-09-2013, 01:19 PM

Kraig,

Good suggestion on the engine connection, I'll check it out. Silverleaf seemed to think there would be a total of three connections; one forward on the firewall, and one each on the engine and transmission. The tech also thought the whole Silverleaf system was run through the Vansco; I somewhat have my doubts about that however.

We had another short leg today with no reoccurence of yesterday's problem. When we get home, providing we have no further Silverleaf alerts, I'm planning on heading over to the local Cummins shop and have them run their diagnostic check just to see if there might have been an engine or transmission anomaly that occured that didn't appear as a specific fault on the Silverleaf screen. At least then I should be reasonably sure that there is a good possibility of a problematic electrical connection.

EngineerMike · 07-11-2013, 06:10 PM

I had a ton of those error messages on startup of my 06. Its reporting a mismatch in the can buss ping of the major components, which for my rig happened routinely if I grabbed the key & turned it straight to Start. At that point all ECMs hadn't woken up & handshaked on the j1939 data buss. Within seconds, all computers wake up, but Silverleaf can take a reading prior under the right circumstances. Typically there is no error code in any ECU/ECM, just reported on the Silverleaf.
IIWMI'd just relax and enjoy a cool one. No need for a doctor's visit.

Birddog Pilot · 07-12-2013, 08:50 AM

Hi Mike,

Thanks for he information. I can understand how the systems may not have "woken up" on start, but do you suppose the same could happen during normal operation? Also, did you also get any other warning lights on either of your two annunciator panels? My occurrence was after several hours of driving when we had pulled into a parking spot prior to shut down; and as I mentioned I also got at least the seatbelt warning light, and possibly others that may have flashed and were unnoticed. Also, do you suppose a loose connection might just simulate a start up situation to trigger the Silverleaf to spit out multiple duplicate error codes and flash the last two or three warning lights that usually appear after start, such as the Seatbelt, ABS and Brake Failure? Hmmmm, a possibility...?

I do like the idea of not making an appointment with "Dr. Cummins;" relaxing with cool one sounds much more enjoyable -- and less expensive.

EngineerMike · 07-12-2013, 10:55 AM

I don't recall getting the error code during operation but I got it so often I took to ignoring it always. Never had any other issue.
As to the warning light(s), multiple at one time would indicate some kind of connection issue. Your warning lights are a subset of the Actia gauge set. There is a main connector from the chassis to the speedo, then twisted pair connections from speedo to the flanking gauges, and to one of the warning light assemblies; the second warning light ass'bly is slaved off the first by twisted pair. On my 06 the connectors all had light weight clips that snapped into the socket on the gauge/light. On my 08 they eliminated the clips, and I've had one come loose.
When a twisted pair connection is lost the gauges go into constant sweep, or the lights constantly flash. The seat belt light alone would indicate to me a reading assumed to be the seat belt. So if the seat belts were hooked up, I'd say it was a brain fart in action. If it happened again, I'd go tightening connections. If it actually progressed to involve operation, then i'd see the doctor.

kraig · 07-14-2013, 05:19 PM

I just finished driving 4 hours without shutting off the engine and while idling into the park I got 3 red lights on the Silverleaf. NO engine connection, No Trans connection, no J1939 connection. Reset the Vansco and started again and all the messages went away. All other gauges and operation were fine. Probably just in the Silverleaf and I am not going to worry about it.

Birddog Pilot · 07-15-2013, 01:37 PM

Is the approved Vansco reset procedure still to shut down both battery disconnect switches? Also, just curious, is your '07 like Mike's '08 with all the "normal" warnings displayed on the Silverleaf as opposed to having the two separate annunciator panels for Check Engine, ABS, Seat Belt, and all the rest?

Renipladlo · 07-17-2013, 09:49 PM

On ours, after the accident we periodically lost data reporting from S/L unit on the dash, Silverleaf checked it out on our way home, turns out we had one pin in the plug not seating correctly. He fixed the pin, and now it works fine. My guess is the plug in the back of the dashboard unit got lose. Just crawl down there and push the plugs all the way back in to the unit, that should fix the issue.

On EM's suggestion of the Data Buss not waking up all the way, I let my gauges do their self test and all that before starting the coach, by that time, everything else related to and talking to the S/L unit is communicating and we are good to go. Letting that take place gives me time to put on the seatbelt, adjust my seating position, etc.

kraig · 07-17-2013, 11:02 PM

Dick, My 07 had a build date of May 07. So far everything I have found on it, is the same as the 08. It is the only Apex that has the 425 I have heard of. Yes all my normal warnings are on the Silverleaf. When I got the 3 red warnings, I shut it off and the battery disconnects and restarted it and the three lights went away. Drove it home 4 hours today with the green no error light ok.

Birddog Pilot · 07-18-2013, 02:37 PM

Kraig, it's looking more and more like what we both have is the old "Intermittent Problem" that will eventually be resolved only when we find the connector/s that are giving these erroneous Silverleaf messages; and my case the Silverleaf as well as the dash mounted annunciator panels.

Renipladlo · 07-21-2013, 01:08 PM

As an aside, our S/L monitoring system does not update with the tire pressure very fast, part of this is the way the tire pressure monitoring system works, and party I am sure is the batteries in the individual wheels are now getting toward the end of their life. I asked S/L what a newer system they recommend, but forgot their answer. Since we are going to have to buy new tires this year, I need that answer so I can buy the system, and have it integrated into the S/L so they talk to each other. I will post my response herein.

Birddog Pilot · 07-21-2013, 03:19 PM

I can find no fault with the response rate of the SmartTire pressure/Tire sensors both on initial start or on the road; but you may be correct regarding battery age and performance at some point. I too was concerned regarding the Silverleaf/SmartTire future availiability when I had new tires installed at Les Schwab, Junction City a year ago, but went ahead and had Pau Kintigh (their resident expert on the systems) replace all the battery/sensor units. Apparently these items should not be an availability problem. Of course if Silverleaf can recommend another system that will integrate with their unit that could be very useful information in the future.

A couple years ago at Quartzsite I bought a pressure monitoring system from one of the vendors for our Jeeps but was not favorably impressed with the way the little self-contained pressure sensors were attached to the valve stems. Yes, they are small and relatively inexpensive, but I had concerns about curbs or rocks knocking them off. Once these things come off there is an excellent chance of losing all the air in the tire; or at least that's what it appeared on this particular system. As we cycled through Junction City the last couple years both Jeeps had the SmartTire sensors installed at Les Schwab. Incidentally, the automobile-type sensors are a bit smaller than those for the Alpine and subsequently less expensive. There are plenty of extra "slots" available on the Silverleaf to program multiple toads.

Renipladlo · 07-21-2013, 03:29 PM

FWIW - The new Jeep Wrangler has a built in TP Monitoring system, it's not wireless thought so it wont talk to the SL system in the coach. I just make sure the tires are up to snuff before we tow, and it's good to go. If I had a failure on the road, I won't know it unless someone tells me, unless I see it in the Camera which I check about twice to three times an hours.