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Old 08-17-2010, 04:13 PM   #1
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SmartBed Hydraulic Leak

Anyone ever had a hydraulic fluid leak in the hydraulic hose tray beneath the floor of the SmartBed? I've just discovered hydraulic fluid in the bottom of the hydraulic hose tray in the rear SmartBed extending from the driver's side to the passenger side. Maybe a cup of hydraulic fluid in total. Tried to determine the leak source (seal, fitting, or hose) by exercising both rear SmartBeds but to no avail. May have to exercise all the different hydraulic systms to hopefully force the leak to reoccur while being observed. Appreciate any feedback. Noticed that someone had a leaking solenoid last year, but this is definitely a leak in or very near the hydraulic hose tray beneath the floor of the rear SmartBed. The hydraulic hose tray is normally covered but can be exposed by removing the screws securing the two covers (one over each side of the rear SmartBeds) over the tray that extends the width of the coach.

Ray & Marilyn Robinson
Richland, WA
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:25 AM   #2
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YES, the rear P/S smart bed had a hydraulic leak. i went to three different HWH dealers and each time they "assumed" the leak was in the fitting and they would cut off the fitting and press a new fitting on the hose and clean up all the fluid in the tray. Later the tray would be full of fluid again. Finally I took it to A & N Diesel, he removed the complete hose and put it under prssure and found a pin hole leak in the hose. He replaced the 114" hose with a new one--no more leaks. The cost of the hose from HWH was about the same as having one made locally and it was faster to go locally, so we did.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:23 AM   #3
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I also had a leak in the rear SmartBed on my 2006 Apex. Turned out that I had quite a few leaks from most of the hydraulic lines in the SmartBed system as well as the slide system due to the lack of Teflon tape on the threads of the fittings. HWH covered the repair at a local shop!
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Old 08-18-2010, 12:31 PM   #4
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Interesting--my general understanding is that hydraulic fittings depend on the flared surfaces to seal connections. Dont recall the factory using teflon on the hoses they replaced for us. Assume you would have to use a petroleum-resistant teflon tape.
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Old 08-19-2010, 02:10 AM   #5
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Thanks for the input. Haven't been able to locate the leak cause yet but will look for someplace to try the pressure test of the hoses to see if a pin hole leak is the culprit. In the meantime, am cleaning out the small amount of fluid in the bottom of the SmartBed hydraulic hose tray and monitoring the hydraulic fluid level to see if the problem is getting any worse. ray
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Old 08-19-2010, 09:56 AM   #6
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robbyray
The pressure test was done by: 1 Open all the smartbeds, it will give you access to the center trays. 2. Remove the hose from the trays going down the middle of the coach, so you can see the hose. 3 As you watch the hose have someone run the pump for that smartbed (continue to extend the bed out.
Hope this helps.
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Old 08-20-2010, 09:53 PM   #7
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Tom & Nancy: Thanks for the pressure testing method you used. I have to be in Iowa for a day or so in the future so I'm planning to let HWH in Moscow IA, do the testing and fixing since the leak appears to be very small. I'm a little worried even about HWH since their telephone support has dropped from poor to non-existent recently even when I asked for warranty pre-approval work. Recession is catching up with everyone perhaps. Don't have much confidence in most of the RV repair shops and with one that I won't name, I ended up with 6 new problems for every one they "tried" to fix.

For those that use Chevron Rykon Premium Oil MV as their hydraulic fluid (now called Rando HD Premium Oil MV), I had a devil of a time finding anyone who carried it in stock. Even went to Chevron's International Lube center by phone and email in Kentucky without any luck in locating a dealer who stocked the original hydraulic fluid which based on the literature is an outstanding hydraulic fluid. However, they put me in touch with some knowledgeable folks who came up with a much more common substitute -- Chevron's Rando HDZ 32 multi-viscosity oil that compares favorably with virtually all of the specs for the original OEM fluid with one exception -- the HDZ has 0.04% zinc and I think the original Rando Premium Oil MV is zinc free. ray
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Old 08-21-2010, 12:09 AM   #8
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robbyray,

You can find the HWH brand name hydraulic fluid at Camping World. It is a non-staining, clear fluid.
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Old 08-21-2010, 01:37 AM   #9
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robbyray,

Do you mean Chevron Rykon ISO 46. That is what WRV switch my hydraulic system over to. I had the hydraulic system flushed this past June and A & N Diesel did not have any problem getting it. I think they buy it in 5 gallon cans. For the HWH pump system I use the HWH fluid. I carry a few extra quarts which I purchased at Camping World for about $3.99 a quart.
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:39 AM   #10
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I compared all of the supposedly equivalent or nearly equivalent multi-viscosity hydraulic oils according to Chevron's "Signature Distributor", i.e., Chevron's older version Rykon Premium MV, new version Rando HD Premium MV, and Rando HDZ 32 (the "Z" is an important distinction which is the multi-viscosity version of Rando HD 32 or ISO 32). After other comments, I also compared the specs (per MATWEB) of what I think is equivalent to HWH Speciality Hydraulic Oil (ConocoPhillips MV32 Super Hydraulic Oil) and even Dexron III. All had similar properties except color HWH/Conoco clear, Chevron typical light oil, Dexron dyed red. I will post the specs I found in MAT WEB for all of these later today. Based on my research, I still feel that the original Rykon Premium MV or its successor Rando HD Premium MV are slightly better (by a small margin) but that all of the othes named above should work OK, no better or no worse that the HWH/ConocoPhillips brand as long as they are the multi-viscosity versions.
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Old 08-22-2010, 05:23 PM   #11
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My '08 Alpine (36-FDDS) came with a sticker on the HWH reservoir in the hydraulic compartment that actuates the two slide outs and the hydraulic jacks: "Chevron Rykon Premium MV", similar to some other Alpine owners who have reported previously in this forum the same sticker on their Alpine coach. My research on equivalent or near equivalent hydraulic oils resulted in the following hydraulic oils and their properties being similar to the sticker's oil:
Group 1:Two are very close to the Chevron Rykon Premium MV properties listed immediately below in the following order: Rykon Premium MV, Rando HD Premium and Conoco Hydroclear AW MV32. Group 2: Another three are similar but differ significantly in color and Viscosity Index. The second group is comprised of Chevron Rando HDZ 32, ConocoPhillips Super MV 32 , and Dexron-III, ConocoPhillips. Properties below are in this same order:
Grp 1: Rykon Prem MV, Rando HD Prem MV, Conoco Hydroclear MV32;
Grp 2: Rando HDZ 32, Conoco Super MV32, Dexron III
Viscosity Index: Grp 1: 200, 200, 195; Grp 2: 155, 145, 172
API Gravity: Grp 1: 32, 33, 33; Grp 2: 33.1, 33, 32.7
Saybolt Viscosity at 100 F: Grp 1:167 SUS, 154, 177; Grp 2: 163, 164, 180
Saybolt Viscosity at 210 F: Grp 1: 50.9 SUS, 49.4, 52; Grp 2: 47.5, 47, 50.3
Kinematic Viscosity at 40 C: Grp 1: 33.1 cSt, 30.4, 35.0; Grp 2: 32, 32, 35.5
Kinematic Viscosity at 100 C: Grp 1: 7.4 cSt, 6.94, 7.7; Grp 2: 6.4, 6.2, 7.2
Pour Point: Grp 1: -50 C, -50, -48; Grp 2: -50, -43, -48 all degrees Centigrade
Flash Point: Grp 1: 196 C, 196, 204; Grp 2: 220, 204, 202 all degrees C
Color (ASTM D1500): Grp 1: NR, NR, 0.5 (Hydroclear); Grp 2: NR, 0.5, red

Note the Viscosity Index is significantly higher for the Grp 1 fluids with the Dexron having the best Viscosity Index of the Grp 2. Surprisingly to me at least was the drop of th Viscosity Index ("VI") in the latest Dexron VI formulations with the "VI" dropping from about 170+ for Dexron III to about 150 for Dexron VI.

Bottom Line (for me): Without flushing the hydraulic lines in my coach and since I can't find either the original Rykon Premium Oil MV or the Rando HD Premium Oil MV (with the same excellent 200 Viscosity Index), I'm going to use the best I can find compatible with the original Rykon Premium Oil MV in the coach, i.e., Rando HDZ 32. If I were going to flush out the system, I would check with HWH to see if the Conoco Hydroclear AW MV32 isn't the same as their HWH Specialty hydraulic fluid and use the Conoco Hydroclear AW MV32 since I can probably find it in the 5 gallon "buckets" at a much better price than the HWH quart size. All the above data is approximate since it varies from sample to sample and vendor to vendor, although not substantially. ray
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Old 08-22-2010, 10:18 PM   #12
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I keep 2 or 3 quarts of the HWH fluid on hand if I have a leak, but baring any leaks that quanity will last a long time. My system does not use any fluid under normal operation.
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Old 08-23-2010, 12:02 AM   #13
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It has been my understanding that the Fluids used in the coach hydraulic system and the HWH system are different fluids. Perhaps someone (Dale?, E.Mike?, Monte?, for instance) that has smart beds could chime in here. I may be wrong on this but would hate for someone to pour the wrong fluid into their HWH system.
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Old 08-23-2010, 02:19 AM   #14
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Thanks Jeff, I believe you'll find on my 625 Series Leveling System with Spacemaker Room Extension Systems, the hydraulic jacks leveling system manifold is mounted on top of the room extension manifold. All of the HWH supported hydraulics, for example, SmartBeds, Leveling Jacks, and Room Extensions are operated off of a common hydraulic oil reservoir of some roughly 4+ gallon capacity in the hydraulic compartment immediately behind the passenger's seat (the outside hinged and lockable bay door before the front SmartBed on the passenger's side).

It's easy to get confused because HWH's schematics in the Operator's Manual (see 625 series, www.hwh.com/ml30488.pdf ) don't show the "as built" stacked manifolds serving the leveling jacks and extension rooms/SmartBeds with the common hydraulic oil reservoir. They do footnote the fact that they omitted showing the as-built system leaving out one of the stacked manifolds. The Chevron Rando HDZ 32 hydraulic fluid that I added to my single HWH reservoir supplies all of the above via a hose from the reservoir connected to HWH's stacked manifolds. I've only reviewed the Operator's Manual for my system so I don't know whether some of the other HWH systems are segregated.
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