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Old 05-06-2011, 12:18 AM   #15
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OF - Give Smartwheel a call, and they might be willing to send you a new control unit, which might fix the problem. They might want to charge you until the old one gets back, but it's worth a shot to see if they will help out. Keep us posted. To change it, there should be one or two plugs, which you unhook, put them into the new unit.
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Old 05-14-2011, 11:20 AM   #16
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Following up on this high idle issue, I tried holding the set and resume switches down for long periods and they still provide no response.

I now know a lot more about SmartWheels than I did earlier this week. I downloaded the Smartwheel Owner's Manual/Troubleshooting Guides, looked at them, and also called VIP and talked to their technical support guy, named Victor. Here's the Owner's Manual: http://www.vipwheels.com/PDF%20FILES/01460-H1V-_A.pdf.

After that discussion, I went to the coach and decided to follow the troubleshooting manual, but ended up calling Victor to help me get the wheel assembly apart. Here's what I learned from that process:

1) The wheel has Four SmartWheel electrical Components -- the two control switch sets, on each side of the horn button/foam center pad, the electrical connection to the switch sets, underneath the foam pad, and a set of slip rings under the steering wheel attachment nut. These slip rings help conduct the electrical impulse to the VIP control module from the pots, allowing the wheel to turn without tangling up a bunch of wires.

2)We have a model PC217 wheel and a PC209 VIP control module, if you ever have to talk to SmarTWheel. Model number is easy to find on the control module but not on the wheel (you have to remove the foam pad to find it).

3)The tech wanted me to disassemble the wheel and clean the slip rings first, so I started there but found that to be a bigger job than I was prepared to do. I was not prepared to remove the nut holding the steering wheel on. I subsequently went through the test procedure on the VIP control module and found there was no need to disassemble the wheel and clean the slip rings because it was getting good signals from the wheel.

4)The control module test is relatively easy; use the troubleshooting guide http://www.vipwheels.com/PDF%20FILES/TROUBLESHOOT.pdf
and test the continuity between pins on the male side of the JP11 connector. (Disconnect the connector and test the continuity between pins on the control module). This requires having an ability to hold the various on/off and cancel/set/resume switches either on or off, while you test the connectors on the module, which is located behind the panel in front of the passenger's seat. I use a big C clamp to hold the switches down while I tested them, but another person available would make it easier. The manual precisely describes the test procedure. All of my tests indicated the module and wheel were working just fine.

5)I took the wheel apart as asked by the technician and learned you don't want to do that the way VIP tells you unless you have to. I spent 2 1/2 hours trying to get it back together and am still not quite finished. They tell you there are four screws holding the wheel cover on, that are accessed from the back of the wheel. I took those out and have not been able to get two of them back in (need some longer screws). They don't do anything of significance anyway, and I could probably do without them. The easy way to take the wheel apart is there is one big Allen screw (about 3/16") that holds the center foam pad on, and it is located through a square hole under the bottom of the wheel. Loosen it just enough to slide the pad upward, toward the top if the wheel, and it comes off. It's the only screw needed. Don't take the screw all the way out because it has a keeper on it that can be a bearcat to get back on the screw. The wire connector to the wheel switches is under that pad. The two wheel switch sets have four screws that hold them on, each from the back of the wheel, and they are easy to remove.

So the conclusion of this testing is that all the functions between the wheel and the control module are working fine, and the control module is sending the proper output signals. The high idle setting is a cruise-control setting to the ECU, and as the Resume switch is stepped up, the idle steps up, just like the engine steps up RPM with this function when the vehicle is moving and the next higher speed is set. So it appears I have a loss of signal between the the VIP module and the ECU, and it's not from any wires leaving the VIP module -- they are all tightly connected. Looks like I may have a broken, chafed, or loose wire somewhere between the two, and that does not look like a lot of fun to find.

EMike-- I'll e-mail you the owner's manual and troubleshooting guide separately and maybe you can get them added to the ACA website for the SmartWheel. I think all of our coaches have the same, or similar wheel since this manual is dated 1998 and hasn't been changed since. It's the same manual the VIP techs work from. It's not hard to do the test; and it tells you whether the problem is in the control module, the wheel, or downstream from the module.
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Old 05-14-2011, 12:07 PM   #17
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OF - if all the output signals are good, then I would not worry about chafed wire. I would have the ECU checked on the incoming side. As someone mentioned, I don't think any of those signals go through the Vansco, but then old brain cells. So now based on what you said above, it's a Cummins issue again. I think asking Cummins to change the ECU might be an alternative, since if it works with a new/rebuilt one, then the issues is fixed, and the problem has been found. Tracing out the wires all the way back would be a bear, since access to every nook and cranny is impossible, as I have tried when the water pump would not start, you just cannot get to them in some spaces.
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Old 05-14-2011, 03:38 PM   #18
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I'm still thinking its a programming issue, unless I missed your point on tests. I didn't see where you tested for & found signal going to/out-of module for high idle. I did a quick word search on "idle" in both Owner's Manual & Troubleshooting, and there are no instances of the word, so I'm guessing no instances of High Idle either, therefore my undocumented hypothesis is High Idle is an undocumented programming option that has to be "set" by somebody w/the software & pigtail used by VIP.

If the Res button sends signal to the ECU to bump up your CC speed, then the connectivity from VIP-->ECU exists & is working, but not reading signal from Res in Neutral/Idle to bump up engine rpms (i.e. there is no physical-function-interrupt of the steering wheel Res button when the Allison pad calls for Neutral, only potentially a software one. To me that spells programming- everything works for one feature, but same stuff which should operate same way doesn't work for a similar feature, therefore hardware OK but software 'no bueno' (Californian for "not functioning correctly").
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Old 05-14-2011, 06:03 PM   #19
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EM & OF - I don't remember reading where when you step on the brake it cancels the cruise setting. If it does then as you reported, all functions work except high idle. That means, either the SM Control Module needs an additional programing step which is not present, or the ECM needs the step programed into it. I agree with EM, all the hardware seems to be present, but a line of code is missing. Have Cummins plug into the data port and see if they get any readings when you push those two buttons on the SM which should start hige idle, if not, the ECM is either not programed or the SM module is not getting through.
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Old 05-14-2011, 08:13 PM   #20
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On my coach the idle can also be adjusted up/down using the buttons on the speedometer. Does that work on your coach. If it does, wouldn't that indicate a software issue in the smart wheel? (While idling push both buttons at the same time until rpm shows up, then one button takes it up the other takes it down.)
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:07 AM   #21
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I think what we are referring to as "high idle" is actually a PTO (power take off) function on the engine. Remember this engine is also used in trucks. I would guess that this is a function that can be enabled or disabled in the ECU.
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Old 05-15-2011, 08:24 AM   #22
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My 06 horizon would sometime not fast idle. I would push the cancel button to clear it and then i could set the fast idle.
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Old 05-15-2011, 01:28 PM   #23
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ORVer- I am with you on difficulty finding a loose or chafed wire; it's a mess going from front to back of the coach with that wiring. I have not been looking forward to that.

Wil, et. al., The PTO functions are enabled and set properly in the ECU. I have been through the setup process on all the functions in the ECU so many times with various Cummins Techs -- in Austin, TX; in Corona, CA, and in Yakima twice, including this last time, and looked at the printout so much I can just about recite all the correct settings from memory. That's what baffles them -- they're set properly and the cruise control functions, and brake cancel mode all work just fine when the coach is moving. All other parameters controlled by the ECU work as they are supposed to, which causes Cummins to tell me there's nothing wrong with the ECU.

Buckaroo -- tried every combination we can think of with the settings on the wheel -- cancel/reset, resume, set, on/off, Jake Brake off/high/low, brake off, parking brake off, you name it, and with others whose coaches work correctly. Haven't found anything that works with those settings.

JL-- I have not tried using the buttons on the speedometer. First time I heard of it, but I'm going to give that a try when I go back to the coach in the storage area tomorrow. That's an excellent idea to test, and could help verify there's SmartWheel programming that I don't know about.

EMike- after I posted above I thought some more about the software programming from SmartWheel and have the same questions as you. I'm going to talk to them again Monday and see if the VIP control module is programmable, like a PLC, or if it is pre-programmed with its built-in circuitry. I did not notice a data port on the module, but I didn't look hard for it. It appears to me the control module is programmed the same for all coaches, hence the trouble shooting manual published in 1998 and they're still using it, and their test procedure is always the same. But perhaps it is truly programmable and I can push that path a little farther with them.

One thing I forgot to mention in the post above is that the pin numbers on the JP11 connector that you use for testing are numbered 1-12, with the top row on the connector being 1-6 and the bottom row 7-12, when viewed from the passenger seat, and counting from left to right. So if the manual says test continuity between JP11.5 and JP11.8, it's between pin 5 and pin 8 on the JP11 connector.

Thanks for all your input on this; it's become an issue that I am determined to solve; sort of like the low air suspension issue-very illusive until we finally found it. In the meantime I've cut a piece of 3/4" by 2" by approx. 20" piece of KD clear Doug fir board and am using it between the steering wheel and the throttle to hold 1000-1200 rpm. Low tech, but it works at warm-up very well while I am doing other stuff on the coach.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:04 PM   #24
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Bill- your High-Idle Programming skills (aka- "The Stick") are legend. We will tell your story to our children and our children's children.

The port for programming should be the same as Cummins plugs into. That gets into the J1939 data bus (twisted pair) network, so it can talk on the same drumbeat as the VIP uses to send signals to ECU. Pretty sure (total guess on my part) there is a programming or at least reading method using software by VIP and pigtail into that data port. And if VIP has no method whatsoever to talk to their unit, and you have to unship it and mail it in, then for lousy planning on their part, you should use your stick on them.

Impressive catch on Jim Munsil's part!!! Here is from an obscure source that since I used it in public, I must go immolate myself forthwith (this oughta make Bill's day, and lighten his load by one clear-all-heart-#1&Btr-Douglas-Fir stick):
Idle Speed Adjust is selected by pressing both the m and t buttons together while in the Drive Mode Screen. Engine idle speed is increased via the J1939 data bus by pressing the m (+) button (PGN65265II) and decreased by pressing the t (-) button (PGN65265ID). The actual engine speed (PGN61444) will be displayed as the adjustment is made. Got no idea who PGN is.
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:54 PM   #25
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EM - PGN could be Program Mode, since by activating those buttons, you are programing the system to do something. The number might be the line of code in the PGN, but then that is a guess on my part.

FWIW - tried to find the ACTIA manual on the company website, no downloads of any kind could I find, unless I'm looking in the wrong site. Any one else find them online? If so post link please.
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Old 05-15-2011, 06:47 PM   #26
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We had copies of both the operation manual and a tech doc produced in concert w/WRV's order/gauge-interface req'mts on the Tech Library some time back. The gauge company contacted ACA and told them to take the copyrighted docs down, which ACA did. Actia continues to offer great customer service on their goods.
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:04 PM   #27
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I couldn't resist trying JL's approach on the speedometer, so I went to the coach this afternoon and tried it. With engine running, tranny in neutral, cruise off, I can get the rpm display to show on the speedo LCD by holding both buttons down for a few seconds and releasing. It shows the idles speed and + rpm on the m (left key) and the - rpm on the t (right key) on the dsiplay.

But when I try to increase or decrease the idle speed, nothing happens. It will display the rpm just fine, but not change it. If I push cruise on, rpm display goes away and I'm back to the basic LCD screen. I then push both buttons, get the display again, try adjusting up or down, and nothing happens.

This leads me to think the SmartWheel may be programmed as it should be, and their test leads one to believe, but the ECU may not be working correctly, even though it the computer hookup to the data port says it is set as it should be. It also shows no faults, if I remember correctly.

So I will call VIP tomorrow and ask them about programming their module, and call Cummins Yakima to see if I can get some more answers on the ECU, and whether it may be suspect, especially since the low idle rpm won't set correctly from the speedo. I'm speculating the ECU can be set correctly but not translate the correct signal, due to some other issue, from the SmartWheel/control module. I will also ask if there's a separate way of finding faults in the ECU, not settings.

Other thoughts?

PS, EM - "clear all heart" is a description for clear Redwood lumber, but not clear Douglas-fir. Got to keep our lumber grading clean, in case I have to broaden my client base for this method of programming SmartWheel VIP modules. Don't want to mess with success!
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Old 05-15-2011, 10:30 PM   #28
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EM - Hmmmm, so tomorrow I will call them and see if they can e-mail it to me, hope they have it by coach model, as I have no clue what any model numbers might be, and I never could find the exact unit on the website.

OF - Keep up the lumber terms, we all learn a thing or two. I might head up to my coach tomorrow, if I do, I will also try the suggested test to see if it works on mine since the fast idle does work from the SW. If it works from the guage and the SW, then their is a breakdown from the ECM is my guess. I will advise.
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