Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-21-2009, 07:45 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Wil Rathke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 283
When we departed Quartzsite the engine started and sounded normal. I even checked belts, etc. in the engine compartment and added some air to one of the tires. I noticed a slight burning plastic odor as we pulled out and assumed that was plastic in the campfire.

We drove about 90 miles east and checked in at an RV park. After the engine was shut off in the office parking lot it would not crank. A quick check with a voltmeter indicated that the start solenoid was hung up with 12V on both sides. The insulation on the 2 12 gauge wires to the starter solenoid was melted and the solenoid case was melted at the terminal.

A call to Cummins Rocky Mountain in nearby Avondale produced a mobile technician with a rebuilt starter. I had a spare start solenoid and some wire. The engine was repaired after several hours. The wiring harness with the 2 12 gauge wires had overheated but the 2 wires were not shorted to ground or 12V. Also, there was no damage to the ring gear and no wear on the starter Bendix. Fortunately, the aircraft spec wires that WRV used prevented a fire. I had a start solenoid failure on our '99 Alpine and therefore I carry a spare. Cummins advised replacing the wiring harness. They were very concerned about liability.

I will closely inspect the wiring harness when we are back home. One of the wires gets its power from the large +12V termial on the starter with no fusing or protection. I think that an improvement would be to connect this to the chassis disconnect, if it can handle the additional intermittent load. Also, a timed audible alarm would help call attention to this fault.

Any thoughts???
__________________

__________________
2005 38FDTS
2011 Ford Edge
Fredericksburg, TX
Wil Rathke is online now   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 01-21-2009, 11:16 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Wil-
1) Where is the "starter solenoid" located on your rig?
2) did your starter gear stay engaged for the 90 miles? or maybe the fried wire happened @ the new campground (that would mean the plastic was in the campfire @ Qzite & newly melted plastic @ campground)?
3) I'm not sure from your description is the 12V closing signal was locked on to the solenoid or if the large solenoid contacts welded; can you elaborate?
4) rather than a dash indicator, you could easily locate a buzzer or light in the batt compartment & make that a part of a walk-around check after starting the coach.
5) I haven't traced out the coupla solenoids on the '08 engine side of batt bulkhead yet; one is the Cole-Hersee type and one is larger & Bakelite like the Trombetta charging solenoid. I'm pretty sure a spare Cole-Hersee would work in a pinch for any of the above.
__________________

__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2009, 02:11 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,100
On our 2007, the Vansco powers a "small" Cole-Hersee type solenoid which then powers the large HD solenoid on the starter. The small solenoid gets its power from the positive battery cable on the starter, thru what looks like a fusible link. The small solenoid is located on the back side of the rear battery compartment wall. Did you check the small solenoid, as it could have stuck and caused the damage you describe.
I will wait for further info as Mike requested for any further assistance I might have.
__________________
Dale Gerstel
AMG GTS
Las Vegas, NV
Had: 2007 Limited SE 40fdts
dgerstel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 06:14 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Wil Rathke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 283
Thanks for your input. Let me try to explain this so it makes sense.

When we stopped after 90 miles, I measured 12V on both large terminals of the Cole-Hersee starter solenoid mounted on the back side of the battery compartment bulkhead. I hit it with a hammer handle which disengaged it. I assume that it stuck and then the "Bendix" solenoid, which is part of the starter, overheated and failed in a short time. This allowed the starter to disengage because there was no damage to the ring gear or on the starter Bendix gear. The Cummins tech said that as the engine RPM would exceeded the starter RPM it would force the Bendix out but it would continue to try to re-engage.

The Cole-Hersee gets its power from the +12V terminal of the starter through which lookes like about #12 AWG wire. These 2 wires still had continuity but the insulation was melted at the starter end. I can probably read the wire numbers at the small solenoid end. I don't think a fuse link was in the circuit. The Cummins tech replaced these 2 wires.

Our '05 also has a plug in relay in the fuse block in the battery compartment labled "IGNITION". Not sure how this is connected but it's failure will also prevent the engine starting. So I carry a spare.

I think an improvement would be to relocate the power source for this solenoid on the chassis battery disconnect. The Cummins tech said that the current in this wire would be about 30 amps. I used a NAPA ST-80 solenoid as a replacement. I used it successfully on our '99.

Mike, I like the idea of a buzzer in the battery compartment. If the buzzer is on during walk around, the chassis disconnect would shut things down.

Thanks much for your comments and I appreciate more comments.
__________________
2005 38FDTS
2011 Ford Edge
Fredericksburg, TX
Wil Rathke is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2009, 06:56 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 1,100
Wil,

The stuck solenoid was my guess and the fusible link will not prevent this problem. I feel this is a very unusual problem and don't think I will worry about it. If you are concerned, run a wire from the output wire on that solenoid to the dash and have it power a light or buzzer. This would give you immediate confirmation of stuck power to the starter, allowing you to run back and deal with it fast.
__________________
Dale Gerstel
AMG GTS
Las Vegas, NV
Had: 2007 Limited SE 40fdts
dgerstel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 01:58 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Reviewing the Cummins Cable Layout on the ACA Tech Library site under Chassis, it shows a red cable direct from chassis batt's positive "PASS-THRU" stud to the starter positive stud, but does not show wiring to the starter solenoid or the Cole-Hersee type solenoid in between. That drawing is dated 8/05. My suspicion is that the Cummins portion of that drawing is lifted from Cummins (has nice Cummins graphics of the engine, etc.). The tie in to the Vansco multiplexer (which translates signal from the ignition/fuel & brake pedals/turn signals/etc. @ the front end) along w/intermediate & starter solenoids isn't shown.
It does show the "INTERCONNECT SOLENOID" that connects House & Chassis batt's when LED#19 is lit on the Vansco.

This will be a good drawing to add to the paper stash I travel with, and I can add in the wiring for intermediate & stater solenoids, and maybe their continuation to the Vansco. Something to add to the bucket list.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2009, 04:35 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Wil Rathke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 283
Mike - thanks for the info.

I sent an email to Mark Harrah asking about rewiring the start solenoid power through the chassis disconnect and also asked why it was not wired that way. His response was that the disconnect switch should be able to handle the additional load. His comment regarding why it was powered from the +12V stud on the starter was that it was always done that way at Alpine and there was no reason to change it.

I have wired a backup beeper to the switched terminal on the start solenoid. This gives a loud beep when the starter solenoid is on. I also plan to rewire the start solenoid power to the chassis disconnect switch.
__________________

__________________
2005 38FDTS
2011 Ford Edge
Fredericksburg, TX
Wil Rathke is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Starter Problem? Edw Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum 7 02-10-2009 04:44 AM
starter won't engage CJScepter Monaco Owner's Forum 2 11-02-2008 12:33 PM
8.1 Starter------- Max Hubrich Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 17 10-12-2008 05:55 AM
Starter Scare psyflyjohn Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 10 07-29-2007 07:52 PM
No Starter hamguy Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 6 10-24-2005 10:27 AM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:25 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.