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Old 11-22-2011, 10:02 PM   #29
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Rental car companies pay their vehicle taxes slightly differently -- if you look at your rental receipt, in many cases they break out the 'use tax' on there (although it's not strictly required to do so, it just makes it easier to list a lower rate and then bill you more )

In short, every day the car is rented in Texas, they pay Texas a use tax, and then if it gets driven to Florida, then they pay Florida use tax on the rentals while it is in Florida. Then if someone drives it to Ohio... the same.

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Old 11-22-2011, 11:59 PM   #30
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All - When we purchased our RV the state of Washington, got 16,000 dollars and change for the tax. This has two benefits, 1) we sleep well at night knowing we played by the rules & 2) some of it we were able to deduct off our Federal Return.

If you don't like the taxes you pay in the state you live in, I suggest you move to a state, which does not have high income taxes, and high sales taxes. Oregon has no sales tax, but has high income taxes (to pay for those expensive state workers who get the second best retirement after California) and or 7 other states which have no income tax. The no income tax states are: Texas, Washington, Nevada, Alaska, Tennessee, Florida and one more I don't remember. They have sales tax, and in the case of Tenn. and Fl, have some sort of tax on investment incomes over 150K or some such thing. Forbes Magazine, Good Sam, and several other places can tell you where your tax bite is less based on a number of factors, and I recommend you do the necessary research.

Some of those states might have a smaller tax on large purchases, but may have annual licensing fees which are high. In the case of WA, if I remember correctly, the sales tax has a kicker of .3% for vehicles, but the annual licensing fee is 125.00 per year. OR has 30 dollars licensing fee, but the income taxes are horrendous at 9% and no federal deduction on amounts of Fed Tax over 5,000 dollars (or some figure like that). Additionally, if your income is high, (I think over 150K), you have a 3% increase in the tax you pay for those state retirement mentioned above. All in all, WA is one of the cheapest states to live in all things considered. I will mention that as the economy get worse; all the states are looking for additional forms of revenue, so this will change (think Medicare reductions from the Feds, and Obamacare kicking in). FWIW- The governor of WA wants to increase the state sales tax .5% so she can fund education better, the law states the legislator has to approve at 60% majority and it's put before the voters to pass. If it passes, Nevada might be another choice as their sales tax is not quite as bad, plus the sun shines more.

Licensing fees in NV I believe are higher as is insurance for car/boats/RV. Texas is alright if you can stand the heat. Some states have different licensing requirements on RV's, so keep that in mind if you are physically challenged, as the testing requirements might mean a driving test for you.

Sorry, I have always paid my taxes, and don't have sympathy for those who try to beat the system. So for those of you breaking the law, I hope you get caught, and spend some time in the big house, since playing by the rules should be the way you live your life.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:12 AM   #31
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Is an RV really that much different? An RV is like the vacation home except it is not limited by physical location. You can choose your state of license based on the costs involved.

What if Montana offered no Property tax on vacation homes. Would you be a tax dodger for buying there instead of in your home state?

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Yes, it is different, RV's are usually considered "personal property" and you can't choose which state to license it in, that's illegal unless you keep it out of your home state enough to qualify for an exemption.

As to the second paragraph above: No, that's because the property is physically in in MT.
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Old 11-23-2011, 08:40 AM   #32
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All - When we purchased our RV the state of Washington, got 16,000 dollars and change for the tax. This has two benefits, 1) we sleep well at night knowing we played by the rules & 2) some of it we were able to deduct off our Federal Return.

If you don't like the taxes you pay in the state you live in, I suggest you move to a state, which does not have high income taxes, and high sales taxes. Oregon has no sales tax, but has high income taxes (to pay for those expensive state workers who get the second best retirement after California) and or 7 other states which have no income tax. The no income tax states are: Texas, Washington, Nevada, Alaska, Tennessee, Florida and one more I don't remember. They have sales tax, and in the case of Tenn. and Fl, have some sort of tax on investment incomes over 150K or some such thing. Forbes Magazine, Good Sam, and several other places can tell you where your tax bite is less based on a number of factors, and I recommend you do the necessary research.

Some of those states might have a smaller tax on large purchases, but may have annual licensing fees which are high. In the case of WA, if I remember correctly, the sales tax has a kicker of .3% for vehicles, but the annual licensing fee is 125.00 per year. OR has 30 dollars licensing fee, but the income taxes are horrendous at 9% and no federal deduction on amounts of Fed Tax over 5,000 dollars (or some figure like that). Additionally, if your income is high, (I think over 150K), you have a 3% increase in the tax you pay for those state retirement mentioned above. All in all, WA is one of the cheapest states to live in all things considered. I will mention that as the economy get worse; all the states are looking for additional forms of revenue, so this will change (think Medicare reductions from the Feds, and Obamacare kicking in). FWIW- The governor of WA wants to increase the state sales tax .5% so she can fund education better, the law states the legislator has to approve at 60% majority and it's put before the voters to pass. If it passes, Nevada might be another choice as their sales tax is not quite as bad, plus the sun shines more.

Licensing fees in NV I believe are higher as is insurance for car/boats/RV. Texas is alright if you can stand the heat. Some states have different licensing requirements on RV's, so keep that in mind if you are physically challenged, as the testing requirements might mean a driving test for you.

Sorry, I have always paid my taxes, and don't have sympathy for those who try to beat the system. So for those of you breaking the law, I hope you get caught, and spend some time in the big house, since playing by the rules should be the way you live your life.
Old Rv'er,

I think it is pretty harsh for you to accuse people who have a Montana LLC of "breaking the law".

How do you figure that a Montana LLC is illegal and if it is, why does the State of Montana allow people to do it?

Do you ever buy anything online? Do you pay tax on those purchases? If you are a resident of WA, by your own rules, isn't the state entitled to tax money on purchases you make?

I'm just saying, I think everyone has their own version of playing by the rules. I don't know everything about this LLC subject but am trying to learn. If you buy a $100 widget via phone or the internet and don't pay tax on it, is that different?

Sometimes it just seems like our government keeps wanting more tax money all the time. IMHO, they are people that we are paying to figure out how to get more of our money. Sometimes it seems prudent to look for legal ways to keep more of our money.

Jimmy
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:38 AM   #33
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Jimmy & all - Yes, when I purchase something online from Amazon, WA gets their cut. When I order equipment for my business (licensed in WA) I will either pay the tax at point of sale, or put that purchase in my report so when I file my business taxes for WA I pay it at the end of the year.

So don't jump on my butt about my paying taxes, because I pay lots of them. I don't go out of my way to take a trip, call a lawyer, or however it's done, to register an LLC in Montana, so I can skip out of the taxes for an expensive motorhome or anything else. Montana might have a law which allows it, however, your home state can/will/should go after you, to the point of putting you in jail, if you broke your home state tax laws because you live in that state and should pay your part to support that state.

Slavery was legal in the south 165 years ago, did that make it right? No!!!! Because you can do one thing (avoid taxes in MT with LLC) is that morally & ethically right? That is for you to decide, however, if you get caught, go to jail, pay huge penalties for doing it, you took a chance and lost.

You are correct everyone has their own concept/conscience of what is right, and prisons are full of people who thought killing, rape, murder, and tax avoidance is correct, too bad the penalties for all those crimes are not much more severe.

I am done with this subject, and again, don't have any sympathy for anyone who gets caught avoiding the taxes due at point of purchase in their home state, if you have the money to buy the RV, you have the money to pay the tax.
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Old 11-23-2011, 11:58 AM   #34
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To Old Rv'ers point, it would be illegal to form and LLC to simply purchase the MH and avoid taxes. If you have a legitimate business and purchase the MH for business purposes then it's perfectly legal as you will pay taxes on the business.

The reason the the people who did this are being busted is they do not have any type of business. They simply created a tax dodge and it's coming back to haunt them.

If the states go after them for penalties and interest it will be far more painful than had they the just paid what they owed up front.

I don't like taxes anymore than the next guy but I pay what I owe.

I like playing by the rules makes everything simpler.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:02 PM   #35
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Here is something that is fair but rarely taken advantage of: If you sell your vehicle before the due date on the registration- you are entitled to the balance. I had to pay the DMV almost six months of reg. fees once when I bought a mh from someone. Then, when I sold it- I asked for the same thing and was refused...now how was that fair?
I have never heard of a buyer being responsible for the balance of the registration fees. Does the plate stay with the vehicle in your state? Here the seller's plate comes off and buyer either purchases a new one or transfers from a previously owned vehicle. Years ago the plate stayed with the vehicle but too many were not properly transferred until the registration expired.
I dislike taxes as much as anybody but still play by the rules. I can buy a vehicle in Alberta where there is no provincial sales tax, slap on an Alberta tag (as long as I have a local address) and drive it back to B.C. If an observant leo decides to pull me over or I get into an accident and my dl and registration don't match I'll have some 'splainin to do. And my wallet will lighten.
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:08 PM   #36
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nope nada no way jose`
if there is a loop hole to avoid paying excessive taxes...then it must be exploited. PERIOD.

dot think for a minute our beloved elected officials aren't just as guilty at dodging taxes or being creative in the manner at which they do not pay them

however if doing a montana llc requires said item to be in the state xx amount of days, then it is a requirement. if you do a montana llc and have it in your other state over the alotted time for the tax break then your screwing up and not following the grey rules

i live in texas
my taxes on my rv were low when i purchased it and my yearly tag is 3 dollars, yep 3 dollars, with no annual PP tax.

in Al we were charged a different tax rate on large purchases IIRR over 1500 and it dropped off sharply....but we did have annual property tax on said vehicles, still low but it was a tax every year.
plates were 65....

if there is space between the lines and you can live in that space legally then go for it......but be prepared to justify it if its called into question
nothing is black and white...especially tax law. get your ducks aligned and stand your ground..

i love the statements of "if you dont like your current states laws...then move" ahh it should be so easy....
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:26 PM   #37
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If person does the montana LLC thing and there is no REAL busniess for profit . Then yes said person IS a TAX cheat. and the "loophole" should be hung around thier neck.
I paid my fair share. which is 7.5% in my home state of Ohio. as should all.
THe only way to really get the point across is to enforce the tax and afix the fine at The Tax + Tax X 700%
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Old 11-23-2011, 12:31 PM   #38
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Didnt John Kerry keep his boat in RI because the taxes were cheaper than they were in MA?

Whats good enough for a Senator is good enough for me
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Old 11-23-2011, 01:10 PM   #39
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Looks like Monty has grouped the LLC folks with Rapist & Murderers and then left the building not wanting to discuss it.

I personally don't think that slavery and a Montana LLC are in the same league, but that's just me.

It is an interesting topic and I am very sorry if my questions have gotten anyone upset or irritated. I have not heard of this LLC thing before and thought I'd ask a few questions since the topic came up.

I hope everyone has a great Thanksgiving and I'm thankful I found this forum because there is a ton of useful info & friendly people here !

Jimmy
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Old 11-23-2011, 02:56 PM   #40
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Some random thoughts:
1) more interesting to me than where the U-Haul plates come from, is that renting a one-way from CA to TX currently has a rental fee of $2,800. Renting a one-way from Tx to CA has a rental fee of $400. Difference of 7 times. Not much demand to move to CA. Wonder why. (duh)
2) truly rich people can afford better tax advice than the IRS, Congress or the President. Has always been true, and will always be true. Trying to squeeze that turnip is an idiots dream. Not saying anything about right, wrong, or fair share, just stating fact. The truly rich (and their advisers) will figure out how to keep more of what they earn forever, and any new scheme will fall more heavily on those in the middle who don't have the same options. Again, its only a fact, discernible by either logic or studying history, and anyone can ignore it as they please.
3) just my guess- majority of LLC'ers are not truly rich, as in the sense of #2 above. Those who have a documented, honest LLC setup will fare just fine. Those whose deals are smoke will pay the piper. Those who are truly rich will avoid new tax, because their tax attorney will answer the summons, and the local tax collector will fold his tent, and go in search of greener fields.

My parents amaze me. In their 80's, and still haven't figured out #2 above. They spend half the day grousing over who hasn't paid their "fair" share, as though any second now 10,000 years of human history will suddenly alter course and "rich" people will start paying their "fair" share. I think I'm adopted.
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Old 11-23-2011, 03:53 PM   #41
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...if you have the money to buy the RV, you have the money to pay the tax...
That's an asinine statement!

Now if you want to say: "if you decide to buy a motorhome you need to CONSIDER the cost of sales tax when budgeting for the purchase...", or "If you have the money to buy an RV, you BETTER have the money to pay the tax...", I would not have a problem with it.

Your statement makes an offensive, judgmental assumption.
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Old 11-23-2011, 04:35 PM   #42
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I have no dog in this fight, but to me tax evasion is tax evasion, whether a millionaire or thousandaire.
I am curious as to whether Minnesota is also pursuing criminal prosecution?
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