Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-21-2013, 09:30 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
gator67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: everywhere
Posts: 516
Still More on white chips in the cold water line

After years of having this problem, I had another thought based on passing comments.


When I flush the water heater, I get quite a few calcium chips out of it... the same kind of chips we see in the cold water faucets when traveling and using the water pump. I got to thinking that the traveling might be stirring up the chips in the water heater and they somehow are getting into the cold water line.


Is it possible for some of the crunchy stuff in the water heater to back up into the cold water line?
__________________

__________________
Jerry & Shirley Friedman
2014 Chevy Silverado 3500HD
2015 Mobile Suites 38RSSB3
gator67 is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-22-2013, 12:01 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
2 Stroker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Warren, Oregon
Posts: 1,719
I would say No, I think the calcium is a build up in the lines at the fittings them it flakes off. We got our CC the first of the year and it was bad with calcium build up, washes the WH out for about 5min and it looked like I hit the salt mines. I need to get an anodized rod and install, my Suburban WH in my 5er has one but this Atwood does not just a plug.
2 stroker
__________________

__________________
2006 Country Coach Inspire 360 40ft Genoa Designer Series, Samsung 197 RR
Cat C9--STEEL & COPPER Bolt Together Radiator w/ updated rubber mounting
SilverLeaf 330 Magnum 2812 PSW 2011 Ford Edge Sport-Air Force One
2 Stroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:15 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
Jerry- this has been such a persistent problem w/such draconian corrective measures applied, I'm thinking there is a cross connect between the hot water tank & the cold piping some place. You manufacture those chips in the hot water tank, and no matter what you've tried they still come back.
Maybe they are poltergeist chips, "They're baa-aack?"
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Tony Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Peru heading for Brasilia, Brazil
Posts: 2,117
Quote:
I need to get an anodized rod and install, my Suburban WH in my 5er has one but this Atwood does not just a plug.
No need in an Attwood but can be fitted for extra protection for the tank provided you get the right one.
Not sure about preventing scale though because I thought it was a result of differing solubility at different water temperatures.

As for the OP. Might be worth doing a winterise with white vinegar including a few gallons in the fresh water tank followed by a drive around to shake things up a bit and fill the HWS as well.

If you are getting just an occasional flake through the system, it might not be worth worrying about. Some of it might be coming through the town water supply so running all your water in through a 10 micron filter would eliminate the problem

The HWS should have a check valve to stop water getting back up the cold water line but if it was defective it would be possible for heated water to get back up the cold water inlet line.

Another possibility is that the chips aren't calcium but clay that often builds up on the inside of water pipes and flakes off. Drop a bit into vinegar and see if it fizzes.
__________________
Tony Lee - International Grey Nomad. Picasa Album - Travel Map
RVs. USA - Airstream Cutter; in Australia - MC8 40' DIY Coach conversion & OKA 4x4 MH; in Germany - Hobby Class C; in S America - F350 with 2500 10.6 Bigfoot camper
Tony Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-23-2013, 09:34 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
bcbowers's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Surprise, AZ
Posts: 631
Jerry,

Here's my experience with general debris & white chips:

The previous owner of my coach had NEVER drained &/or cleaned the hot water tank. How do I know? Because when I pulled the anode plug (which had nothing left but the heavy core wire) I could not see inside the tank because the debris was so thick.

I used the typical wand cleaning tool to flush out the tank. The amount of debris including large white chips was staggering! I replaced the anode assuming that all was well now. Wrong!

I then started experiencing intermittent hot water blockage and decided I must need to clean the tank more thoroughly. But how? I came up with an idea to use the long awning pull-down rod to scrape & loosen debris in the tank. It has a rounded surface and shouldn't damage the tank. I had to insert the "L" shape end first and then turn it to insert the rod. Once inserted, I scraped & scraped until the tank surface felt smooth. I then flushed the tank with the wand tool and still got "tons" of debris & white chips. I did this procedure several times within the span of a couple of days.

The hot water blockage turned out to be a failed check valve (discussed in previous threads). But atleast I got the tank clean. I flush the tank every time I return home from traveling and only experience very small amounts of debris ... no white chips. I also use a much better water filter now.

Is using this method a standard or approved method? Of course not! It's an idea that seems to have worked pretty well for me; especially considering the severe condition of my water tank.

I hope this helps. Hey, it`s an idea that's worked.
__________________
Bob Bowers (Surprise, AZ)
2003 Alpine Coach 40' FDTS
2014 Jeep Cherokee Lattitude
bcbowers is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-28-2013, 07:22 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
Bob, it might be more prudent to replace the WH now because it's 10 years old, and tank failure could be around the bend. Now if you choose to do that, but before you put in the new one, perform a good cold/hot water system flush.

Remove all the faucets aerators, and then tie the cold/hot water line together in the WH compartment with the proper fitting. As suggested, put a few gallons of white vinegar in the fresh water tank, and suck that through the complete water system using the pump. Let that sit for 3 hours, and then flush that through with clean filtered (see below) approved drinkable water. Once you have determined that there are no more chips, then replace the tank, doing bi-annual clean outs to keep the system clean and pure. I carried two anode rods swapping them out twice a year, that way they wore at the same rate. Don't forget to replace the aerators.

You will have to replace with the same brand you presently have, as the cutout hole in the coach is sized for that brand. All things being equal, I prefer the suburban more than the Attwood, since I have had such good experiences and great customer support from them.

For us, because it's an apex, I use a sediment-taste pre-filter outside the coach to filter the incoming water, and we have not seen any white chips or other debris in our water and we have been all over the country with it. I place the water regulator on the faucet, then a “Y” adaptor, on one side of the “Y” I then attach a short approved water hose to the incoming side of the filter housing, then the hose on the outlet side of the filter to the coach. I put a second hose on the other part of the “Y” if I need one outside for any reason.
__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2014, 05:22 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 587
I guess that answers a question I had about filters in the Apex. Our TT had a large barrell filter under the kitchen sink that filtered all the water entering the coach. Sounds like the Apex has no such filter so I will have to obtain one before we use the Apex. Thanks Monty.
__________________
Janet and Todd Legg
2006 Alpine Apex M-40FDQS #75594
2014 Honda CRV w/navi
Janet and Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2014, 06:34 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Olympia
Posts: 670
Janet,
IIRC all Apex'es came with a Reverse Osmosis filter system. Those that have used it have been very pleased with it. Some folks have opted not to use it however.
Now, if I recalled incorrectly, someone will be along shortly to correct the info. Hope this helps.
__________________
Jeff
'99 Alpine Coach
Jeff and Cheryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2014, 06:41 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 587
Hi Jeff,

Yes, we have the RO system which is a separate system from the shore water. I was wondering if there was an on board filter for the shore water connection. Sorry for the confusion.
__________________
Janet and Todd Legg
2006 Alpine Apex M-40FDQS #75594
2014 Honda CRV w/navi
Janet and Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2014, 11:17 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Auburn, CA, Havasu, AZ & Mulege, BCS
Posts: 5,217
The RO system comes with two canister filters, one takes a depth media cartridge for sediment, the second a "carbon block" filter to remove chlorine which is harmful to the RO membrane material. I don't know where those were installed in the Apex, could be amid-ships on the bulkhead forward of utility bay tanks (that's where they were on our 06). If you don't find them, they may have been removed by a previous owner. I have replacements if needed. You should also have a filter bypass valve on the DS utility bay panel.
__________________
Baja-tested '08 2-slide 36'
Alpine: The Ultimate DIY'er Project
EngineerMike is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 10:06 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 587
Mike, are you saying that the shore water, the hose reel on the Clenndinning, also goes through the cannister filters of the RO system before ending up at the faucets?

I have both cannister filters and two spares. The RO system appears to be intact but we haven't examined the membrane canister yet.

I was under the impression that the RO system was separate from the shore water with it's own shore water connection that passed through the cannister filters, the RO membrane and into the fresh water tank and then from the fresh water tank via the Shurflo 5.7 to the faucets. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks.
__________________
Janet and Todd Legg
2006 Alpine Apex M-40FDQS #75594
2014 Honda CRV w/navi
Janet and Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 12:04 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
All - Yes the APEX came with the RO System, which included two filter housings. However, at the end of the "installed on reel" hose the water then is controlled by two "solenoid valves" which allow "auto fill". Those solenoids valves are "BEFOFE" the two RO filters and hence can become plugged from the city water service. I have had to replace them once because they got full of debris from city water service system. About one year after we purchased the coach, since the pre-filter arrangement, I have not had an issue.

Some parks are on a well, and yes there is supposed to be a sand filter in the pump line, but many of those system are old and the filter has broken down and is not doing its job.

Regardless, I don't recommend any MH/RV owner just "use the public water service" without a regulator and at least a sediment pre-filter arrangement, to keep debris out of your fresh water system. The arrangement would the outside facuet, water regulator, filter housing with sediment/taste filter installed, then hook up the hose to the RV. This becomes a "requirement" with the APEX systems because of the way they are plumbed (those pesky solenoid valves) and the full time use of the fresh water tank.

Now you can take the time and effort necessary to change the way the APEX is plumbed and not have to use the Fresh water tank all the time, but before you make those changes give this plenty of thought, using the FWT and pump keeps those systems cleaned out, and used all the time. Maybe you buy more water pumps, but the pressure is better using that system to me, and when you leave a place and go to the next one, you will have water in the tank for those roadside stops as needed. I know some APEX owners have modified their plumbing system because of that, I have learned to like it, one benefit is when you are in very cold water, you don't have to wrap the hose or insulate it to keep it from freezing since it's in the inside of the coach and warm. We are having a severe cold wave coming here Sunday/Monday. Down to 8F. I will fill up the tank later today, and won't worry about having anything frozen unless the HH quits, then I am going down to FL to escape the cold.

At first I did not like this system, but the more I used it, it works better for me now.
__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 12:27 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 587
Thanks Monty. Your explanation gives me a clearer picture of the water system in the Apex. So do you use an inline filter or a canister type on the hose reel? Looks like both are available.
__________________
Janet and Todd Legg
2006 Alpine Apex M-40FDQS #75594
2014 Honda CRV w/navi
Janet and Todd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-04-2014, 12:36 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 2,226
All - I went to HD/Lowes and got a single pre-filter housing and then used brass plumbing fixtures on adapting it to a hose situation. The plastic fittings don't last long. They may be setup for hose adapters, don't remember. HD/Lowes have the necessary filters and fittings. The regulator is on the end of the pedestal water supply, then a Y adapter, and then I hook up the filter unit, and attach the fill hose from the RV to that. The spare outlet on the y I use for a second outside hose if necessary for flushing the tanks, or washing stuff off.
__________________

__________________
Monty & Janet - 2007 Alpine APEX 40 MDTS
S/N - 75715 - Retired - Master Certified RV Tech
Old Rv'er is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
water



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.