Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Alpine Coach Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-07-2014, 10:07 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Thank you 'Putybm', HWH jack retraction

A big thank you for the work you did sorting thru the issues with stuck HWH jacks.
Our LR jack has been an ongoing problem for several years. First it was the warning about jack not being up and then it was really slow retraction. Then failure to retract without manual assistance. Yes, I wiped the shaft with silicon.
After doing all HWH manual tests it became very apparent that it was not a solenoid as the troubleshooting guide indicated. I did some wiring switching and hydralic line switching but still same problem. I did some searching and found Putybm's very comprehensive posts about piggyback springs and how the springs fixed the stuck cylinder. HWH jack question Century Springs # 5582 inside of the original springs really made the jack retract in record time. This is a rather tough job but well worth the effort.
If there is an internal modification to the clearance between the shaft and the packing then it makes me wonder why there has been no apparent acknowledgement from HWH. They must sell a ---t load of parts to fix this problem.

beagle
__________________

__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 08-08-2014, 09:30 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Pubtym is the name of the poster who did the good work on piggy back springs. Sorry about the misspell. He also uncovered parts that were not of very high quality.
The Century Spring #5582 needs to have about 1/4" trimmed off of the loop on the end of the spring to facilitate getting it thru the hole on the round plate that contacts the ground. Century Spring has a minimum of 4 when you order. I have a couple of extras if anyone wants to give this mod a try.
Pubtym is the handle and I think he is on the Winnebago forum. Thanks again!

beagle
__________________

__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 12:33 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Has anyone else tried Pubtym's advice on adding helper springs?
__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 08:09 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Algoma's Avatar


 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Charleston, WV
Posts: 2,639
I know this subject has been discussed endlessly but I would like to add some comments for anyone new to this.

First, the HWH website has a lot of information on how to treat the jacks and on acceptable retraction times. These times are long and probably exceed our patience, hence why we all think our jacks are defective. I have one rear that always takes much longer than the others but is still in spec.

Second, do not spray with silicone. This builds up over time and slows the jack down. Fully extend the jack and then spray with WD-40. The manual says to wipe off but I have found that spraying right before retracting works best.

Lastly, I have installed the new HWH springs but have not added the helper springs. I am sure they will help and can't do any harm so why not.
__________________
John and Mary Knight
2015 Newmar Ventana 4311 - wheelchair accessible
2015 Cadillac SRX Luxury AWD
Algoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2014, 09:03 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Refuse1's Avatar
 
Alpine Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Des Moines,Iowa
Posts: 222
Beagle,

I am not finding any details about this spring doubling trick. Are there any pictures or details available about how this is done ?

Thanks,

Jeff
__________________
2001 Alpine 36MDDS
Refuse1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 12:15 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Refuse1 View Post
Beagle,

I am not finding any details about this spring doubling trick. Are there any pictures or details available about how this is done ?

Thanks,

Jeff
Jeff check your PM box.

beagle
__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-31-2014, 06:31 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
94-Newmar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,043
Adding more springs is only a temporary measure - the cylinder will eventually become so stiff that adding 10 springs to it won't raise it.... as I've discussed, along with 100's of other people's posts on various forums. the problem is not with the springs - it's the quality of the HWH piston wear ring, the rod end wear ring, seals and wipers. They shrink as they age and become so tight on the rod itself that it simply cannot overcome the friction. As it progresses they begin to roll up (think of placing a rubber band over your arm and roll it up to your shoulder area) and become so tight that you'll eventually need a 2 ton floor jack underneath the leveler pad to be able to get it to retract. Adding more springs simply buys you more time.

Any local hydraulic shop that rebuilds cylinders can rebuild the HWH hydraulic cylinders. There is nothing special or unique about them. Every one that I've had rebuilt for customers using good quality internals from a local shop will result in the cylinder retracting in less than 10 seconds. More importantly it will continue to function this way (as it should). I have some going on 10 yrs now and they still retract in less than 10-15 seconds with the OEM stock original springs.
__________________
94-Newmar Kountry Star 40-KSDP
Spartan/Cummins 8.3C-300HP/Allison 3060 WTEC-II/25yr RV Tech RVIA Certified/Onan-Cummins Certified
94-Newmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2014, 06:40 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94-Newmar View Post
Adding more springs is only a temporary measure - the cylinder will eventually become so stiff that adding 10 springs to it won't raise it.... as I've discussed, along with 100's of other people's posts on various forums. the problem is not with the springs - it's the quality of the HWH piston wear ring, the rod end wear ring, seals and wipers. They shrink as they age and become so tight on the rod itself that it simply cannot overcome the friction. As it progresses they begin to roll up (think of placing a rubber band over your arm and roll it up to your shoulder area) and become so tight that you'll eventually need a 2 ton floor jack underneath the leveler pad to be able to get it to retract. Adding more springs simply buys you more time.

Any local hydraulic shop that rebuilds cylinders can rebuild the HWH hydraulic cylinders. There is nothing special or unique about them. Every one that I've had rebuilt for customers using good quality internals from a local shop will result in the cylinder retracting in less than 10 seconds. More importantly it will continue to function this way (as it should). I have some going on 10 yrs now and they still retract in less than 10-15 seconds with the OEM stock original springs.
Appreciate your input. Confirms the sticky cylinder issues other have posted about. Having 25 plus years as hvy. equip. mechanic, I've dealt with equipment that had mostly hyd. components, I will say that single action cylinders are not difficult to diagnosis. For my money the add on springs are the way to go if you are inclined to want to wrestle with the installation. I can report back on the piggy back springs in year or so, but for now it is first cylinder on the panel to go out.

beagle
__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2014, 11:17 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
A trip to the Washington State Fair with several stop coming and going confirmed the add on springs are the 'cats meow' when it comes to getting the jacks up and not having to deal with the annoying buzzer going down the road.

beagle
__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 04:29 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Chuck 1935's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Shadow Hills,CA 91040
Posts: 3,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beagle RC Air View Post
A trip to the Washington State Fair with several stop coming and going confirmed the add on springs are the 'cats meow' when it comes to getting the jacks up and not having to deal with the annoying buzzer going down the road.

beagle
Beagle
I am going to get the 5582's when Century Spring has them in stock. I am in the L.A. area and will pick them up in a couple of weeks.
I have been thinking about adding helper springs but have not gotten around too it. (read lazy) !
My question to you is.. What is the length of your rear HWH Springs when retracted ?
Mine are 16 inches so it would require a fairly good stretch on those 5582's which are 12 inches.
I don't envision having a problem doing it as I have had the round feet off in order to press them flat again.
With these facts do you have any sage advice ?
__________________
NOTE; I am not responsible for typos, poor grammer or misspelled word !
04 Itasca, Meridian 34H, 330 Cat/2003 CR V Toad
1933 Ford 3 Window,as seen in Bye Bye Birdie
Pvt. E1 Retired, Shadow Hills,Ca.
Chuck 1935 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2014, 05:43 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Beagle RC Air's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Raymond, Washington
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck 1935 View Post
Beagle
I am going to get the 5582's when Century Spring has them in stock. I am in the L.A. area and will pick them up in a couple of weeks.
I have been thinking about adding helper springs but have not gotten around too it. (read lazy) !
My question to you is.. What is the length of your rear HWH Springs when retracted ?
Mine are 16 inches so it would require a fairly good stretch on those 5582's which are 12 inches.
I don't envision having a problem doing it as I have had the round feet off in order to press them flat again.
With these facts do you have any sage advice ?
Chuck,
The springs are 15" retracted. Jeff inquired about any tips for installation a few posts back. I can leave my ph.# in a PM and we can discuss this.
Feel free to call anytime.

Beagle

Beagle
__________________

__________________
Beagle RC Air is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
hwh



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HWH Drop Down Jack / Broken Actuator Cable tonyscarface RV Systems & Appliances 3 08-30-2014 09:45 AM
HWH 610 jack stuck in travel position wplate MH-General Discussions & Problems 8 06-26-2014 08:02 AM
HWH Jack down alarm dwaller Class A Motorhome Discussions 16 05-27-2014 09:54 AM
HWH rear jack issues. Stevetoo Class A Motorhome Discussions 6 05-21-2014 12:16 PM
HWH jack fails to remain extended Alpine Dave Alpine Coach Owner's Forum 25 03-03-2014 01:48 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.