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Old 09-13-2011, 09:45 AM   #15
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Opinions vary on Toyos--see forum for comments. Some Alpiners experienced unusual edge {river} wear with the 295 75Rs. Could be urban legend but some discussion that Toyo accussed RVs of overloading "their" tires and had stopped making some sizes of [rv] tires??????
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:26 PM   #16
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I think Toyo got tired of complaints (and maybe even lawsuits or threats thereof) from whiny RV'ers and started to recommend not putting them on RVs.

We discussed tires & driving safety, trading tires for age not wear, at the just concluded Tahoe rally for Alpine SoCal. Folks started checking their date brands and found some oddities. An 08 w/two VIN digits earlier than mine had tires made in late 05. Mine has April 07 rubber. Go figure. An 05 owner found late 03 rubber on his Time for new shoes on his for sure.

Easy to check born-on date- look for 4-digit incused (like punched in, rather than sticking out) number on the sidewall. Mine are 1407 and 1607 (14th and 16th week of 2007 respectively. I guess 15th week was a holiday week?
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
WOW--10500 front axle--I never knew....guess the early models had a reduced CCC or did they shift the balance point. I was always impressed by the large CCC of the shorter length Alpines. Curious, have you ever weighed your front axle?
IIRC our CCC was at or over 3 K.
At last weighing we gained a bit of weight with age and front axle weighed 10.2K with full fuel, propane, water, Patty, AbbyKat, Kayla Czar and me. No gray or black but most of that would be on the rear.
Our GVW is 28k. Making 10.5k front and 17.5k in the rear. Our GCVW is 33k.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland
I'm dumber than I look...How do you know he has an Alpine?
We are in the Alpine Coach forum, so I just assumed.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:21 PM   #19
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[QUOTE=" Still think I'd go with load range H and maintain a margin of safety--blow-outs are not fun!!!!![/QUOTE]

Keep in mind that the load range H in MOST cases only scales more weight if you inflate the tires to a higher pressure than the G counterpart.:-)
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland View Post
I'm dumber than I look...How do you know he has an Alpine?
He's posting in the Alpine Forum, the WRV Alpine Coach-specific forum. We also recognize him as a regular member.

If you are interested in acquiring the best driving coach ever manufactured, read the other threads in this forum and the Alpine Coach Association website. You'll be impressed.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:45 AM   #21
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Think it goes without saying that you are going to use higher PSI with the H rated tires to achieve greater load carrying capacity. In fact, I am in the middle of "exploring" whether the lower PSI pressures allowed on H rated tires [ie 95 PSI or less on dual applications], actually contributes to river [edge] wear on GY G670s. Theory being that lower PSI allows outer edges to scrub [like a truely underflated tire might act]. The real difference between a G Vs an H rating is 14 ply vs 16 ply--you are definitely getting an increased margin of safety with the H rating [more important in the front, obviously.]

Lets review gross vehicle carring weight again--with a 10,500 front axle and a 20,000 back axle [20k is the legal limit per axle, I think] gives you a max gvcw of 30,500. If your gvw is 28,000, you have about 2500 lbs of excess capacity on your axles. Assuming max PSI of 110 for most G rated tires [vs 120 for H rated], you will need a G rated tire with a min of 5500 capacity to cover your front axle--6000 would probably be better.
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Old 09-16-2011, 10:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
Think it goes without saying that you are going to use higher PSI with the H rated tires to achieve greater load carrying capacity. In fact, I am in the middle of "exploring" whether the lower PSI pressures allowed on H rated tires [ie 95 PSI or less on dual applications], actually contributes to river [edge] wear on GY G670s. Theory being that lower PSI allows outer edges to scrub [like a truely underflated tire might act]. The real difference between a G Vs an H rating is 14 ply vs 16 ply--you are definitely getting an increased margin of safety with the H rating [more important in the front, obviously.]

Lets review gross vehicle carring weight again--with a 10,500 front axle and a 20,000 back axle [20k is the legal limit per axle, I think] gives you a max gvcw of 30,500. If your gvw is 28,000, you have about 2500 lbs of excess capacity on your axles. Assuming max PSI of 110 for most G rated tires [vs 120 for H rated], you will need a G rated tire with a min of 5500 capacity to cover your front axle--6000 would probably be better.
First our GVW is 28K. That is figured by the front axle at 10.5k and the rear at 17.5 K. That is the coaches GVW. Looking at our sticker in the coach our UVW is 23,100, giving us 4,361 NCC. Our GCVW is 33K.

Now our Bridgestone R260 295/75R22.5 14 ply(actually only 5 plys) G load range @ 110 lbs scales 6175 per tire or 12,350 for the front axle. I run 95 to 100lbs or 5,510 per tire 11,020 for the axle to 11,560 respectively. So anywhere between those pressures scale enough weight for the gross rating on the front axle of a 2000 36 FDS. I run 85 in the rear and have no abnormal wear in 40 K miles and no rotations.

Again almost all( I say that because I can't think of all examples) 295/75R22.5 G rated at 110 psi scale 6175 lbs not 5500 or 6000. Again we are talking about the LP225, which is our OE size for our coach.

Now to the point of an H scaling more weight at a lower pressure, In most cases IT IS FALSE. Don't get confused by some Euro spec tires in our market. Compare RMA specs to RMA, and again in almost all cases a G and an H carry the SAME weight at 95lbs.

Look it up at the Bridgestone link http://www.trucktires.com/bridgeston...loadTables.pdf

Page 5 - 11R22.5 G and H use the same table. The tire size is the same. So the air envelope is the same size, for a G or H 11R22.5. Air is the only thing that supports the load (the sidewalls offer none, well maybe a tiny bit since I can stand on a truck tire without it collapsing) so when we go over 110 psi, as in an H rated we can scale a larger load.

If you look through the tables you will find some H that carry more weight than a G at the same pressure. These are Euro spec tires.

So if I inflate my tires to 95 lbs on the front axle, it doesn't matter if it is a G or H at the same pressure.

There is no real quantifiable safety margin, IMHO.

The manufacturers load inflation tables are designed to put the proper footprint on the ground and provide proper flex points at that a specific weight and psi.

I'm sure I will get truckers who will swear that max inflation is the only way to go. I will hang my hat with the EXPERTS, the tire manufacturers, who have more experience building tires and inflating them than all of us combined.

Sorry Scout, just trying to clear up some confusion.
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Old 09-26-2011, 05:55 PM   #23
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Toyo Tires

Am looking to replace my outdated Toyo's on my '05 36FDDS, and in checking the Toyo site, I believe I read that Toyo does not recommend their tires to motorhome applications.
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:13 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom and Patty View Post
Look it up at the Bridgestone link http://www.trucktires.com/bridgeston...loadTables.pdf


Sorry Scout, just trying to clear up some confusion.

Now I'm more confused (which is easy). But when I look at the link on the page that shows Medium Commercial Truck Radials, there is line for 295/75R22.5 "Range H Only" that shows the load at 100psi to be 6305 lbs and at 110 psi, the load limit is 6780 lbs. In the line immediately below, with the same size 295/75R22.5 tire -- but apparently these are the G rated tires. It shows only a load of 5780 lbs at 100 psi and specifically says the load limit for G tires at 110 is 6175 lbs. To me, that says if I need 12000 lbs on the front axle I would have to inflate a G tire to 110 psi (max) and if I had an H (which I do) I can run the H tire at 95 psi and carry 12000 lbs. You can call me a moron (my DW does all the time) but that's how I read the table.
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Old 09-27-2011, 09:28 AM   #25
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I agree with Tom and Patty (and Abby Kat). I had Yokohama R23's installed and the dealer insisted that they always inflate to max psi. The ride was awful. So I weighed the coach, 10k front and 14.5k rear, and lowered the pressures to 95 front and 85 rear. Much better. WRV said 95 front and 95 rear which is full axle load but we are less than that. We are not full time so don't have the basement crammed with stuff.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:20 AM   #26
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fireguy -

Where on the Toyo web site did you see that Toyo tires are not recommended for motorhomes? I see a specific warning under "RV Tire Care" in which 3 - specific makes of motorhomes should NOT use Toyo tires but WRV isn't included.
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Old 09-27-2011, 11:26 AM   #27
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Some tires are designed for high mileage while others, like for RV's are more interested in aging effects. Could this be why some tires are not recommended for RVs?

Also, commercial truck owners can purchase trailer tires and differently designed steering tires. On a consumer RV, you'd want all tires to be steering tires since they will be rotated and for safety.
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Old 09-27-2011, 05:05 PM   #28
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Some tires are designed for high mileage while others, like for RV's are more interested in aging effects. Could this be why some tires are not recommended for RVs?
I suspect it is more related to litigation than performance.
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