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Old 07-31-2015, 02:07 PM   #1
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Vansco Issues

All,

I hvae a 07 Alpine SE that I have had for about 4 years now. 2 years ago I had an issue with my rear VMM. Luckily it was in my driveway so I wasnt stranded somewhere. Sent the rear and the (dash) forward VMM to JCA so they could pull the program off the dash VMM to install on a new VMM.

I installed them when I got them back and havent had an issue until yesterday. Got ready to leave and the same issue appeared, only this time both VMM's appear to be dead (no power, nothing). The PDM has power and having gone thru this before I have tried everything to try and re-establish power, no go.

The questions to all of you out there is:
Has this happeded to anyone else where both have gone out at the same time?
If so, was JCA able to recover the programming from one of them?
There are no electrical drawings for this curcuit that I know of, am I missing a fuse somewhere that I just dont know about? I know I'm not that lucky!

I'm really racking my brain on this one. I could maybe see the original VMM going bad but not the new one only being a couple of years old. I'm wondering if I have some kind of electrical issue that shorted them both out and would sure hate to replace the VMM's at about 3k to hook them up to have the same thing happen?

Apprecieate any and all input from the Alpine Family.

D.
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Old 08-02-2015, 01:27 PM   #2
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You might get more responses if you explain the acronyms you used. What's VMM? Virtual Machine Manager? Verification Methodology Manual? Volunteer Missionary Movement? Virginia Mennonite Missions? That's what Google suggests. How about JCA? Java EE Connector Architecture? Jacobson Consulting Applications? Java Cryptography Architecture? Jordan College of the Arts?
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Old 08-02-2015, 04:26 PM   #3
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Daren is referring to the Vansco Multiplexing Module. Most if not all of the people in the Alpine family know what he is referring to.
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Old 08-02-2015, 07:31 PM   #4
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It's an Alpine thing, you wouldn't understand.

Sorry, just has to rip off a jeep saying!


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Old 08-03-2015, 09:39 PM   #5
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Vansco Issues

Daren, I have been lucky thus far and not had this problem, but the way I under it, if one of the VMM's sense the other does not have a program (like it was newly replaced) the existing VMM will automatically download it (or maybe it is the other way around, if a unit discovers it has no program and senses there is 1 networked that does have one, it will download it). Either way they communicate and both end up with the same program. Do a search of prior threads, I know there have been several on VMM's.

Sorry I can't help with no power, have you looked in the tech library, there are a lot of drawings, particularly of the last year or 2 coaches.


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Old 08-05-2015, 08:04 PM   #6
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Problem Solved

All,

I chased my problem down to the two engine batteries. I didn't bother starting there because one, I didn't know the PDM and VMM's got power from the engine batteries and two, the batteriers are only two years old so not sure why they were dead.

Anyway, charged them both up turned teh selector switch to "on" and all three moduales pwered up.

I think everyone in the Alpine Family can feel my relief.

Safe Travels,

D.
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Old 08-06-2015, 08:09 AM   #7
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Good for you!! I am a new owner and the mechanical side is easy for me to understand but the electrical side with everything being networked together is a challenge. I brought a meter home from work to measure the current coming out of the chassis batteries while the coach is sitting disconnected from shore power. I measured a load of 1.4-1.6 amps. Doesn't take long to kill the batteries if not plugged in or connected to some kind of maintainer.
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Old 08-06-2015, 08:31 AM   #8
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Rerun that current draw with the chassis batteries disconnected, I expect it will drop but not go away completely.


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Old 08-07-2015, 07:06 AM   #9
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Dave just curious. In what state do you leave your coach when it will be sitting at home for 3-4 weeks or longer of non use. Do you keep it plugged in to shore power. If not do you use external battery maintainers and if so do you turn off both the house and chassis battery disconnects while charging. Thanks
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Old 08-07-2015, 08:00 AM   #10
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Vansco Issues

Rick, when I leave the coach for more than a day or 2 if it is not plugged in I disconnect both battery banks. I will run the generator (and the engine) to charge the batteries once a month, I do not use a battery maintainer. Even with the batteries disconnected I have found there are miscellaneous draws that run down the batteries. One caution, BOTH battery banks must be turned on to engage the jacks. I spent a bunch of time trying to find out why the HWH would not level the coach, I had turned on the engine bank, but neglected to turn on the house bank 😭, boy was that embarrassing !

We purchased the coach new in 2006, I have used the above process from day 1.

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Old 08-07-2015, 09:18 AM   #11
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Thank you Dave.
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Old 08-08-2015, 11:03 AM   #12
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All-I leave the coach turned on and plugged in when I have it stored in the barn/shop. I do turn off the fridge, and turn off the breaker for that, if there is no food in it, turn off the water pump, and depending on the weather set the thermostats for heat if necessary. We are sort of using if for a second home at that place, so completely shutting it down is not necessary now. Later this winter, if we don't head south, I am going to winterize it, and leave it off. Checking on it about every 10 days or so. I will remember to turn off the inverter (on pass through now=enabled) because even if not inverting it draws 1.5A all the time. I did not know it came off the starting batteries, don't think mine does. The way to check is turn off the starting (chassis switch) and see if the lights on the converter/charger are lit, if not, then that turns it off and on, if they are lit, then your coach get power for that from the house batters, turn off that switch and then check again, then you will know.


What I want to know is, if left plugged in, but the master switches are off, will it still keep the batteries up, or does the house switch need to be on?


There are some parasitic loads drawing down the batteries and I don't know what they are. I do know the 100W solar panel will try to keep them up, regardless of the master switch position, but in the barn shop, during winter here, that will be minimal.


As an aside, winterizing it, will entail a trip to exercise the various systems, and I need to have the transmission filter serviceed, so that is what I will do before I put it to bed if necessary. I don't want to watch the rain fall for 8 months, but things may keep us here in the Pacific NW.
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:12 AM   #13
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Darren, So far no on the forum, has come up with drawings for the later model coaches. Above the PDM is a 70 amp fuse that powers the PDM. There should be a small fuse panel on the back wall of the battery compartment with fuses for engine and transmission.


One question that is not clear in post when you say power from PDM , does that mean all your output lights are on? What I did was take pictures of my PDM and VMM with key off, key on and running, for each of of them.


I would check power leads with the round connectors coming into both VMM. As I remember there is no ground coming in, just two red power wires coming in.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:46 PM   #14
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When it comes to electronics, full clean DC power is necessary, but the lower voltage cut-off threshhold is elusive due to mash up between volts & amps. Your electronics may light up under no load then die or go "hinkey" when load is applied. Always start w/checking voltage at the batteries.
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