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Old 04-20-2006, 11:01 AM   #15
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Thanx for the reply, my pilot friend.
I would like to modify my other reply a little. I did replace my air filter a year and a half ago. Since they cost me very little anyway I went ahead.

There is only one critical seal in the Alpine air filter assembly. This is on the end of the filter that seals against the rear of the housing. if the plastisol (rubber) seal looks like it has been making contact with the rear of the housing your system should be tight. Of course you still need to check the aluminum tubing and rubber elbows and clamps.
So go get em! Somebody owes you, and it sounds like WRV. They assembled the air system. And I beleive they buy all the hose assemblys and ducting from a company in Portland. Air Flow Systems, I believe. Dont know for shure.
Stretch, a former P210 driver
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Old 04-20-2006, 12:24 PM   #16
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Shorts,
We really sympathize with your story. We had an 04 with numerous problems. WRV kept putting us off for numerous months, basically hoping that we would go away. The coach was in the shop for over half of the time we owned it, all the while we were making a hefty payment on it each month. We ended up hiring an attorney that specializes in the Lemon Law and then posted our story on this site and others. We tried to settle this privately with WRV so as to not give them any bad press, but didn't get any type movement from them until our story was posted. At that point they offered us our choice of new coaches, all 05's. Even after we were told to make a choice of new coach they tried to come back and have us pay for the hydro hot system ($9,000). We stood our ground and told them we would not pay for one dime on the replacement coach. We ended up with a new coach that we have had only minimal problems with. We dealt with Mike Glazier who we felt is fair, however he isn't the one who has the authority on making any decisions, Ron Doyle is. Our opinion is that Ron Doyle doesn't care about his customers or whether they are happy with his product after they purchase it. We would purchase another Alpine Coach or recommend one to others? NEVER!
Best of luck to you with your battle. We feel that someone should be held accountable to you for what has happened. Don't give up, it could take months and WRV is just hoping that you will go away.
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Old 04-20-2006, 07:18 PM   #17
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Shorts,

Can only imagine how upset you must be! A suggestion: If you're a Good Sams, FMCA, etc. member -- Their mags have a section that provides help resolving problems w/manufacturers and service providers. For example, Good Sam's Highways magazine has Action Line. Maybe these folks could help you get your message across?

As first-time diesel pusher owners, your problems have struck fear in our hearts!!

I'm revising this message, because originally it implied we thought WRV (i.e. "manufacturer") was at fault. To be honest, I think Coach Care is to blame.

Good luck.
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:26 AM   #18
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Soren:
Shorts,
We really sympathize with your story. We had an 04 with numerous problems. WRV kept putting us off for numerous months, basically hoping that we would go away. The coach was in the shop for over half of the time we owned it, all the while we were making a hefty payment on it each month. We ended up hiring an attorney that specializes in the Lemon Law and then posted our story on this site and others. We tried to settle this privately with WRV so as to not give them any bad press, but didn't get any type movement from them until our story was posted. At that point they offered us our choice of new coaches, all 05's. Even after we were told to make a choice of new coach they tried to come back and have us pay for the hydro hot system ($9,000). We stood our ground and told them we would not pay for one dime on the replacement coach. We ended up with a new coach that we have had only minimal problems with. We dealt with Mike Glazier who we felt is fair, however he isn't the one who has the authority on making any decisions, Ron Doyle is. Our opinion is that Ron Doyle doesn't care about his customers or whether they are happy with his product after they purchase it. We would purchase another Alpine Coach or recommend one to others? NEVER!
Best of luck to you with your battle. We feel that someone should be held accountable to you for what has happened. Don't give up, it could take months and WRV is just hoping that you will go away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 04-22-2006, 09:48 AM   #19
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Soren, It has been weeks and weeks since I have had any dialoge with WRV and Coach Care, the phone only works for me in one direction. If I Call Them. I am more than ready at this point to take it to the next level. If you could pass on the attorneys name and phone number I would appreciate it. Also I will take your advise and contact Good Sam, FMCA etc. Being a dues paying member of the Alpine Coach Association maybe I should see if I could put it in the news letter.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Soren:
Shorts,
We really sympathize with your story. We had an 04 with numerous problems. WRV kept putting us off for numerous months, basically hoping that we would go away. The coach was in the shop for over half of the time we owned it, all the while we were making a hefty payment on it each month. We ended up hiring an attorney that specializes in the Lemon Law and then posted our story on this site and others. We tried to settle this privately with WRV so as to not give them any bad press, but didn't get any type movement from them until our story was posted. At that point they offered us our choice of new coaches, all 05's. Even after we were told to make a choice of new coach they tried to come back and have us pay for the hydro hot system ($9,000). We stood our ground and told them we would not pay for one dime on the replacement coach. We ended up with a new coach that we have had only minimal problems with. We dealt with Mike Glazier who we felt is fair, however he isn't the one who has the authority on making any decisions, Ron Doyle is. Our opinion is that Ron Doyle doesn't care about his customers or whether they are happy with his product after they purchase it. We would purchase another Alpine Coach or recommend one to others? NEVER!
Best of luck to you with your battle. We feel that someone should be held accountable to you for what has happened. Don't give up, it could take months and WRV is just hoping that you will go away. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>[/QUOTE]
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Old 04-23-2006, 08:11 AM   #20
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Thought I'd better change my statement about blowing out the air filter. Talked to my brother and he said it would be OK to shake out the filter but in no case blow them out. Guess this operator still has a few things to learn. Hope my original comment did not mislead anyone.

It sure is nice to have all this input. Still would like to relocate the intake to the top of the roof though.

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Old 04-23-2006, 11:53 AM   #21
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Good on ya, Iron Mike. I did the same thing. I had to recant when I realized I had changed the air filter recently instead of the almost 4 years without changing it as I stated earlier.
But if we all just watch the the restriction gauge and leave the filter in the housing til the gauge goes into the yellow, we will save a lot of money and still keep the engine safe...
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Old 04-29-2006, 11:11 AM   #22
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Shorts:

Been thinkin and thinkin about your treatment by Cummins and WRV. I'm talkin about the "dusted" engine.
Only two posible culprits. Wrv for installing the intake system. Or Cummins for messing with your filter. Period. Time to sue and I hate saying it. But 14K is a lot of dough. And you are not going to like this, but that rebuilt engine is not going to last as long as the original. Cummins will deny this but I bet they only gave you a 90 day warentee on the rebuilt right?
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Old 04-30-2006, 08:58 PM   #23
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Thanks for the responses and input from all of you.
I still feel that there is a under lying problem, both by Coach Cares negligence and Western RV wanting to stick their head in the sand till the weather changes. I had hoped to get this resolved by phone, fax, and E Mail during the four months in Arizona. But then I wouldn't be sharing this info with you and the problem would not be being discussed in this forum.
In commenting on your input, I had Cummins in Sparks check for any leaks, hoses pipe, fittings, turbo, etc and they found none. Correction. This was after they had already started to dismantle the engine and connecting parts. I performed a simple vacuum test on the filter minder when the engine was being rebuilt and it works fine. It is still on the Coach, and it never read over 15. In fact that is what it read when we pulled into Sparks with the problem. The filter minder is looked at and reset every time I check the oil and transmission fluids and drain water from fuel separator. What makes this problem even stranger is that at no time did we have any signs of the engine running rough, power being less, fuel consumption being more, no whistles, bells or lights flashing etc. One would have to assume that all these safeguards are hooked up and operating. Also when Cummins ran the Dynastic test that can tell you every thing, it did not show Zip and this surprised them. So I agree we are not supposed to pull the filter to look or clean, but if you can't rely on the filter minder or the whistles and bells and the flashing lights due we wait for the Blue Smoke and the Burnt Oil Smell?
I appreciate all your input and help to keep this thing going till we get some answers.
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Posts: 5 | Registered: April 16, 2006





Stretch : Thanks for your input.

IT HAS BEEN FIVE MONTHS SINCE OUR CUMMINS 400 BIT THE DUST AT 9800 MILES

Just like you I have been thinking and thinking about what the **** happened. I have logged probably better than 120 hours researching air filters, filter minders, diesel engines, turbo's, Pipeing etc on the computer in different forums and tech manuals. And I have came to the same conclusion as you either WRV installed a filter with a bad seal,, or the hose clamps to the filter minder and engine air intake could have been loose or installed wrong which would allow dust/dirt to be sucked into the engine. If this was the case it would explain why the filter minder never registered above 15. It would not if it was getting air from another source then the air intake on the side of the coach. But the computer on the engine did not show any problem when Cummins in Sparks did a dynastic print. When I asked why it did not show, I was told that the dusting of the engine most likely happened rather recently since it did not show on the computer read out or show in engine power degradation, fuel economy, or whistles and bells from all the sensors that indicate problems on the drivers counsel. This would point to Cummins Coach Care in Coburg Oregon. We were told in Sparks at The Cummins Shop that our engine warranty would continue after the repair as nothing happened. It seems that we had better make some calls to check.

In any extent being that we have not been able to come to a agreement with either Western RV or Coach Care, having exhausted almost every means in our disposal except informational picketing and parking on the street in front of both companies to share our displeasure with their customer service. We will be seeking legal assistance to resolve their lack of response. Coach Care acknowledges that they have a partial responsibility in not changing the filter or telling us it was bad but they feel that the engine contamination started before we arrived at their shop for service. Possibly WRV's installation of the intake system. What Do You Think?


Can any of you Apine owners recommend a qualified Attorney for Civil Law.?

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Old 05-01-2006, 08:43 AM   #24
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Shorts: I dont know of any"good" lawyers. I trry to stay as far away from them as I can. However, I would suggest that you locate an attorney with RV factory experience. Tey are around. And you can find them on the internet, I suspect. They are probably locatged in Oregon or Indiana near where most of the MFGs reside.

I agree with the Cummins dealer, in that dusting an engine does not happen all at once it is accumulative over time. That means the most likely culprit is WRV and a sloppy installation. Also remember these words, "POLICY ADJUSTMENT" I'm sure it Cummins is pressured they will do a policy adjustment and so will WRV. IF pushed into a corner they will alter their normal policys and proceedures to keep you quiet.
Just a thought
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Old 05-01-2006, 08:17 PM   #25
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Look up lemon laws attorney in your state (Washington?) I found lots of them on the internet. Thats a place to start. Have the lawyer write a strongly worded letter first. That shouldn't cost much more than $200. Hopefully that will get WRVs attention. And good luck!
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Old 05-01-2006, 09:21 PM   #26
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Shorts:
Get on your computer and "Google: "lemon Laws America" They will lead you to a lemon law attorney in your state. Good Luck
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