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Old 03-04-2006, 09:41 AM   #1
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On Apex1 2 of the three pugs in the kitchen have stopped working. They are the plug on the underside of the kitchen cab and the next plug over. There are 3 plugs on the circuit which is #7 on the apex and the third one works fine. It seems to me that if the curcuit was tripped all would be affected.
Any suggestions please?
Thanks
Lyle
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Old 03-04-2006, 09:41 AM   #2
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On Apex1 2 of the three pugs in the kitchen have stopped working. They are the plug on the underside of the kitchen cab and the next plug over. There are 3 plugs on the circuit which is #7 on the apex and the third one works fine. It seems to me that if the curcuit was tripped all would be affected.
Any suggestions please?
Thanks
Lyle
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Old 03-04-2006, 10:15 AM   #3
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Is the third one that works a ground fault outlet if it is push in button. If button doesn't fix maybe defective outlet. "007"
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:08 PM   #4
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Hello Lyle:

You may also want check and see if the GFI is wired correctly, I have seen them wired incorrectly in residential homes. If wired incorrectly it will not shut down all the outlets on that circuit.
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Old 03-04-2006, 01:48 PM   #5
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Lyle & Kath, if the outlets were working previously then we sould assume that the wiring is okay. Is there a GFI in any of these three outlets? If not,there is another outlet somewhere that is on that circuit. Possibly in the bathroom area. If you cannot find it you should be able to trace the wiring diagram and see which outlets are on that one circuit or possibly the circuit breaker itself is the GFI.
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Old 03-04-2006, 04:56 PM   #6
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Ted, there is not a gfi on the three outlets. I have two GFIs one on each side of the coach. Both appear to be ok. Dave, it appears to me that the GFIs are wired correctly.
And 007 the third one is not the GFI. The 2 recepticles are on separate wires but on the same circuit. It seems remote that I would have two recepticles go out at the same time.
I dunno
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:55 PM   #7
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Lyle - Were your outlets working initially? You indicate they "went out" at the same time so they must have been OK.

Do you have a 2 prong Voltage Tester? Test by putting one prong on the ground and the other on the hot blade(small blade in plug). See what it reads. If there is voltage - there may be a broken or burned or loose neutral wire in one of the plugs. If there is no voltage - then trace the wires from the plug that works to the plugs that don't. Make sure they are all connected tightly in series.

Turn the circuit off at the breaker and open the plug boxes to make sure they aren't burned or loose. Are the 3 recepticles joined by a continuous run or a junction box?

Our '03 doesn't have a GFI in the kitchen - our outlets are connected to the one in the bathroom. Once our kitchen outlets stopped working and we spent forever trying to figure out what happened and then realized it was a popped GFI in the bathroom!

Are you guys coming to the Rally in CA this month? Have you seen Clyde and Gerry since they picked up their Apex? Wonder what horror stories they have now?

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Old 03-04-2006, 07:31 PM   #8
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Lyle & Cath,

Try buying an "Outlet Circuit Tester" to determine where the circuit is terminated at the breaker or it can also help in tracing the circuit prior to the breaker. You plug the transmitter into the outlet that is failing, then use the receiver to find trace the circuit or find its termination at the breaker. I think you can probably get one at any hardware store or at Home Depot or Lowes. See this link for this "Outlet Circuit Tester": http://www.inspectortools.com/recifibyawsp.html

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Old 03-04-2006, 08:00 PM   #9
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Lyle & Cath,
From what you have described:
all 3 receptacles are on the same circuit and there are no others
one works, two don't
there is no GFCI protection
I would have expected receptacles near sink to be GFCI protected but you are convinced otherwise. If this is true:
start with the recpt that works and insure both outlets work in this recpt
if one works and one does not, expect to find the little brass jumper burned open on the hot or neutral side of the recpt. Also, check for a loose connection on down steam side of recpt
if above o.k., and as recpt's are normally daisy chained, go to recpt closest to the working recpt and inspect for loose connection on either hot or neutral side
if above o.k., go to the other non working recept and check for loose connections on line/load side
On the chance that the circuit was wired with a jct box, locate the jct box and check for loose connection there. If you see only one cable instead of two to the working recept, this could be a tip off that there is a j-box somewhere. It could also mean it is the tailend of the a circuit and the two non working recept's are on another circuit.

If recpt circuit is daisy chained, receptacles upsteam of a GFCI will not be protected but receptacles down steam of the GFCI will be protected if wired correctly. Therefore, can have a circuit where if GFCI trips, some recept's will be hot, some not on same circuit.

Do not understand your comment "The 2 recepticles are on separate wires but on the same circuit."
BTF
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:07 AM   #10
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I was surprised to see a posting which suggests that the wiring diagram be checked.

WRV has absolutely refused to provide us with a wiring diagram for our coach, claiming they are proprietory information.

Has anyone been able to obtain a wiring diagram for their Alpine Coach? If so, how?
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Old 03-05-2006, 11:52 AM   #11
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It was included with my owners manual.
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Old 03-05-2006, 02:27 PM   #12
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OK here is my latest and greatest research on this wiring. The bath GFI runs into junction box #1. Two of the wires that come out of juction box 1 go into junction box 2. Three wires come out of this junction box and one goes to the convection 20amp recepticle. The 2nd wire attaches to the gally O/H recepticle and the 3rd daisy chains to galley recepticle #1 and galley recepticle #2. The recepticles that used to work but now do not are galley O/H and galley recepticle #1. They both went out at the same time.
Again thanks for all the suggestions I will continue to try to trouble shoot using those suggestions.
Lyle
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Old 03-06-2006, 03:15 AM   #13
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As with Wayne, ours was included with our owners manual.

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Old 03-06-2006, 10:20 PM   #14
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Lyle- Receptacles take 3 wires; hot = black or red, neutral = white, & ground = either bare copper or green. I'm assuming your schematic explanation is for the hot (black or red) when you say "The 2nd wire attaches to the gally O/H recepticle and the 3rd daisy chains to....
RV receptacles of the cheapest kind (not sure if ours are this type) use a "slicer" connection that supposedly slices the 12ga wire insulation when it is pressed into a narrow metal V-slot, thereby making the connection between wire and the metal of the V. The V is in place of the usual gripper push-socket of a residential receptacle & is electrically connected to the spade sockets of the recept. The cheepo's save the time of stripping wire during assembly, but can come undone. I had one of these "go bad" once w/wire loosened in the V-slot. These gizmos are used for fast assembly where receptacles are chained.
However that would explain only one recept going off line (the wire thru it is intact & should still be connected to downstream recepts, unless it is a multiple failure. The feed pattern you laid out says that one presumably hot wire feeds OH and a second out of the same J-box2 feeds recept G1 then G2, and that OH & G1 are DOA while G2 is OK on that second wire (W2) from J2.
This is where I like my Meterman VT201voltage sniffer (~$10 at home centers near you) for safety. Push the button & hold it near a live AC source (CRT television picture tubes send it off something fierce) & it gives an audible buzz & light. This'll tell you if current is present at any Jbox or outlet B4 getting intimate w/the wiring. And cuz of the way the 12ga wire gets stuffed into boxes, it frequently has some spring tension on it that makes it unruly when recept is unscrewed or Jbox plate removed. Best to know if a circuit is live and needs to be shut down when opening a device, and the sniffer is better'n the volt tester this way- if recept is not energized due to something like described above, $10 saves a shocking experience.
Due to the variety of possibilities, I'd first get a Meterman, then b) use it while doing the tests suggested above. That'll tell you if there's AC (Meterman) where there's no service (voltage tester) & you can repost. That may not be enough, however, since the schematic may not be exactly as you describe. If not, you'll need to pull the Jbox covers & verify wiring route & tight connections, & if that doesn't get it, do the recept's in turn.
Before anything else tho, I'd check the basement. In my Trek there was a GFI next to the inverter that fed the kitchen circuits, and more than once our power was restored there; there may be a GFI for those outlets w/in striking distance of the sink, & its location may not be obvious.
Or you could show up @ Aguanga & we'll throw an outlet party in your new Apex!! Everyone bring an outlet of your choice? Or a schematic?
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