2000 tradewinds rear furnace question

[hbrown]

i was wanting to check out the heat in my tradewinds BEFORE i need it, and the front furnace lit no problem and would toast you. i went to duotherm t state and went to try zone 2 rear furnace and could find no zone 2 furnace, only zone 2 cool which works.

i have searched and got a few ideas to check for my rear furnace to come on like reset t stat back to factory and also somethinf on a relay off rear ac to turn on zone 2 furnace.

i have also read the 2nd furnace is an auxillary, so does this mean it will only come on if furnace 1 cannot keep up? now it was almost 90 here today while i was testing, but had cooled interior down to 72, then turned ac off, then went to heat and started zone 1 no problem but found no zone 2 heat.

any help is appreciated

thanks howard

[hbrown]

well i just went out and did a master reset on duo therm 4 button t stat and no luck. still works the same.

i also check unit for dirt daubers and no luck.

thanks

[Theberrys]

Get the Brisk Air installation Doc from here https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=ae67f...2766057%212562 and check the dip switch in the Air Conditioner to insure the rear furnace is enabled.

Dick

[hbrown]

Dick, thanks for the info.

i followed the paper work, but my panel with the dip switches in the rear ac does not have 7 switches, only 5. the zone 2 is switched to on, but no provision for furnace.

so i pulled outside covers off the furnace again and noticed a small off/on switch on the back of the squirrel cage. the furnace that works is switched on and the one not working was switched off, so i got exicted and switched on. still dont work

not sure why it was off, maybe other owner had a problem, or got 2 hot with both on??? just not sure.

i think i will turn back on and try to reset t stat maybe to see if it will fire up.

do you think since the rear ac has no zone control for furnace, that the rear furnace senses off the front furnace and should fire up at the same time as the other??

im just guessing this as to how the second furnace gets its signal to come on. also i wonder if there is a way its sensing it is hot outside (85) today and will not allow second furnace to come on??

thanks for any other ideas.

howard

[Retiredblade]

I had the same problem last winter in Florida. So, to test out the rear, I took the igniter board out of the rear and replaced it with the one from the front. Tried it and the rear worked. So I sent away and got a new igniter board and both work now. It may be something else, but try that.

[Theberrys]

Howard

I do know the switch on the furnace needs to be on. It's there for service
guys to insure it doesn't come on while there working on it. A way to test
it is to find the two wires in the Air Conditioner and short them together.
That should turn it on. It's just a relay in the Air Conditioner. If that
doesn't turn on the furnace than it's either a problem with the control
board in the furnace or the wires from the AC to the furnace. You could
short them out at the input to the furnace but I haven't ever done that. I
know on mine there is a two wire Molex type connector going into the box
accessible from the outside case of the furnace. I can get to my front
furnace from under the fridge but haven't a clue if it can be done on the
rear one that is under the sink in the bathroom. Here is a picture of that
connector on my front furnace. It's the white connector with the two blue
wires.

The rear furnace should be independent of the front and should show up in
the Zone 2 functions. It's the Air Conditioner that controls it and there
should be a small (one inch diameter) button (with slots) on the wall in the
hall or bedroom that is the Zone 2 sensor. So my furnaces may come on at
the same time or they may not. The temp sensor for Zone 1 is in the
Comfort Control Center, so it all works as two stand alone units even on the
thirty amp coaches. It's just the Air Conditioners that are dependent and
only on 30 AMP coaches are they tied together so thay can't pop the breaker
on the pedestal.

Here is a link to wiring and install diagrams.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=ae67fff392766057#cid=AE67FFF392766057&id=AE67 FFF392766057%212535


Good Luck Dick

[Theberrys]

Howard
I've been thinking about this and have this theory.
Your coach shipped with two furnaces and they were controlled by the Comfort Control Station. Your rear AC only has five switches which is the control board for a single furnace system. The rear furnace was shut off.
This is what I think happened. Somewhere along the line there was a problem with the rear Air Conditioner and either the whole unit or the control board in it was replaced with one that doesn't support a second furnace. That's why the furnace was switched off at the furnace it's self. There should be two wires not connected in the Air Conditioner that go to the furnace.
What can you do about this?
First verify the furnace works by shorting the two control wires. If not than more decisions need to be made to see if it's even worth doing at all.
1: Turn off the rear furnace and use it like it is.
2: Buy a new controller board that does support the furnace for the rear AC unit. First you need to see if your AC unit can support that kind of control board.
3: Buy a simple Digital or Analog Thermostat and connect it to the rear furnace for separate operation. It would need to be mounted to a inside wall in the bedroom or hall. Here is an example of one that would work. It's battery powered so you would only need to run two wires to the furnace and replace the batteries once in a while. http://www.walmart.com/ip/Honeywell-RTH221B-Basic-Programmable-Thermostat/10975513
This guy would also work and wouldn't need batteries.
http://www.amazon.com/NORDYNE-1C20-1...sr=1-3-catcorr
Option 2 may not be valid. There may not be boards for sale and if there is they probably cost a bunch.
Dick

[hbrown]

Dick,

are you a CSI detective. you are clever on this stuff.

I think you are on to something on the changeout ac. the rear ac is definatly on 5 pins on the board. on the t stat there is definatly zone 1 with ac and seperate furnace, but when zone 2 comes up, only ac or fan, no furnace.

i will look tonight, but i think i remember seeing 2 loose wires in the control board area but just dont remember if it was on front or rear ac.

i also have the zone 2 wall sensor on the wall by my bedroom door.

i assumed maybe the second furnace only came on as a back up if it was to cold and the front furnace could not keep up, but that would be crazy to think you have no control if you are burning up in the bedroom and it chilly up front.

i will check further this evening and if this is the situation, i will just put a seperate t stat as u recommend.

i live in texas and after 100 plus days above 104 and some 108 heat is low on my list of needs, but my curiosity is killin me and i want everthing to work.

thanks again

howard

[Retiredblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbrown Dick, are you a CSI detective. you are clever on this stuff. I think you are on to something on the changeout ac. the rear ac is definatly on 5 pins on the board. on the t stat there is definatly zone 1 with ac and seperate furnace, but when zone 2 comes up, only ac or fan, no furnace. i will look tonight, but i think i remember seeing 2 loose wires in the control board area but just dont remember if it was on front or rear ac. i also have the zone 2 wall sensor on the wall by my bedroom door. i assumed maybe the second furnace only came on as a back up if it was to cold and the front furnace could not keep up, but that would be crazy to think you have no control if you are burning up in the bedroom and it chilly up front. i will check further this evening and if this is the situation, i will just put a seperate t stat as u recommend. i live in texas and after 100 plus days above 104 and some 108 heat is low on my list of needs, but my curiosity is killin me and i want everthing to work. thanks again howard

No detective here, Dick is very knowledgeble about things related to motor homes! Glad he is on the forum, he has helped me a lot, along with a few others when I got my Islander!

[Theberrys]

[Rook]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retiredblade No detective here, Dick is very knowledgeble about things related to motor homes! Glad he is on the forum, he has helped me a lot, along with a few others when I got my Islander!

I say "ditto" to that comment. Makes me wonder "how" Dick learned all this specific stuff.......could it be that he has had to fix a lot of things on his own Motorhome. No better teacher than "doing it yourself" .......ask me how I know this? Kudos to Dick. Rook

[hbrown]

Dick, i finally got to spend a little time on the furnace.

on the rear ac, i pulled wiring and found the 2 blue wire from controller attached to 2 wires that i confirmed go to furnace under bathroom sink.

so i did as you suggested and turned on switch out inside the furnce housing on blower, the went in a disconnected 2 wires and touched together and after 3-4 seconds furnace started but sounded like poo.

i inspected further and found bearings trashed in motor so i will replace.

but back to the controll board in rear ac. it has the same date code as the front ac controller of 1999 and looks the same as the front. so my question is if my front ac controller with only 5 dip switches all turned off gets a signal from the 4 button stat from the zone 1 furnace signal and turns on the front furnace.

why cant i find zone 2 furnace on the 4 button controller for the rear furnace? now the rear controller in the ac is a 5 dip switch all turned off except for zone 2 on.

zone 2 ac comes up on screen, just no furnace.

so if this set up is a identicle set up exept the one dip switch turned on, why cant i see zone 2 furnace?

sorry to ramble and be not to savy on electrical, but would prefer to figure it out, instead of just throwing another t stat on the wall.


do u think the t state is burned up to reconize zone 2 furnace only, but allow zone 2 ac, or maybe controller board is fried only for zone 2 furnace signal?

thanks Howard

[Theberrys]

Howard

I did a little research and took a picture of the pages in the panual and my rear AC dip switch here they are
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=ae67f...6&sc=documents

My dip switch only has five switches and all are off like yours and that's what the manual says is correct.

My rear furnace works in this configuration. The connection between the rear furnace and the front furnace is a data line over the phone chord and the phone wire from the T-Stat only goes to the front AC. If the T-Stat sees the rear AC then the wiring must be good and the rear AC isn't telling the T-Stat it has a furnace. Since you reset the T-Stat then the board in the rear AC is probably bad.
Here is the reset procedure again from the manual and I verified it works on my four button CCC.

B. SYSTEM RESET

After setting the dip switches in the electronic control
kit, do a system reset.
1 . Turn the ON/OFF switch to the “OFF” position.
2. Simultaneously depress and hold the MODE and
ZONE push-buttons while turning the ON/OFF switch
to “ON”. FF should appear in LCD display until the
mode and zone push-buttons are released.

3. When a dip switch is turned on after initial configura

tion,
a system reset will need to be done before the
Comfort Control Center will recognize the updated
selection.

The only thing I can suggest is to swap the front and rear electrical boxes and change the switches in both to reflect the proper zone, then reset the T-Stat and see if the symptoms move. If they do then for sure it's the rear conrol box (now the front control box). I know it's a pain but the boards are very expensive, if you can find one and it's the only way to be sure you need it. If the symptoms remaine the same than mor thought and troubleshooting is required.

At least in this step we know it's not the furnace.

Dick

BTW I got confused with an installation of a Penguin Model in a Fiver I did a couple months ago and it had eight switches, switch number five was to declare a furnace was installed......Sorry

[Retiredblade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retiredblade I had the same problem last winter in Florida. So, to test out the rear, I took the igniter board out of the rear and replaced it with the one from the front. Tried it and the rear worked. So I sent away and got a new igniter board and both work now. It may be something else, but try that.

Howard, let me ask, did you switch igniter boards like I suggested it? If not, try it. It is not hard, easy to get to.