Community Forums

Skip426 · 09-12-2018, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 10EC

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According to the cat man the ecm has 2 hot wires, one consant and the other thru the ing switch. Ing switch kills the ecm power which kills the engine. Might be loosing power to one or both of these wires, or possible the ecm is loose and about to fall off. Might be bad connection there also. It is held on with a recessed allen head bolt (5/32 i think). Maybe ing switch loosing power?

If only the engine was quitting, then a bad ECM power/ground, would be a possibility , but injuredvet's entire dash power shuts off , lights, A/C, etc.
And we have the hot/overheating, C/B as the number one suspect.

There is another little tid bit that you need to be aware of , as per the wiring schematics ( post 28 ) , the battery power to the ECM on these chassis is an in line 20 amp fuse between the batteries and the ECM, and that fuse I've found while crawling around. Fuse on the ignition side, for ECM is at the front of the coach , battery power at the rear .

Skip426 · 09-12-2018, 10:45 PM

Ok , I'll try my best to clear things up , and apologize for posting some assumptions instead of facts.
I'll freely admit, I'm at an age where I should write everything down and check my facts before getting too involved in posting .

First mistake , the picture in post #10 is not of the C/B starter relay plate in my coach .

I don't know where I got it , only that it's of a Freightliner set up and it's been in my computer so long I figured it was one I took.
Second mistake , I said that a C/B on that plate was for the coach battery power to the front of the coach , this partially wrong. There is a third C/B ( Newmar installed )on this plate on my chassis.
On to an actual photo of my C/B , relay plate.
Red arrow , 135 amp self reset C/B; F/L installed( P/N BUS 1811135P010)
Green arrow , 110 amp self reset C/B; F/L installed ( P/N GAF 117811 ) near as I can determine feds only the intake grid heater relay.
Yellow arrow . Newmar installed, manual reset 150 amp C/B ; protects the coach battery power cable to the front of the coach.
Blue arrow . starter relay
Excuse camera angle , I was working one handed over the top of the muffler.

Skip426 · 09-12-2018, 11:23 PM

Now on to my problems with the info supplied by Freightliner , in particular the schematics I posted in #28.
These were downloaded about 8 years ago when I first purchased the coach , and were linked to my chassis serial number on Access Freightliner ( now DTNA Connect ) and no longer available .
My chassis F/L with Cat 3126B Allison 3060 and SIDE radiator. I believe that might just make these schematics of little use to others , so if you download them beware.
Now onto other things to beware of.

In the schematics .
Sheet 2 , lower right near the batteries , 135 amp C/B shown , you can follow circuit 6* to the dash , battery positive ( to CAB ) upper left on the sheet , and the continues to sheet 1. So we're sure the dash power supply for all chassis related 12 volt systems is 135 amp.

I believe this sheet and that C/B will be common to all of the 99 F/L chassis , as per photos posted by injuredvet . Both Cat and Cummins engined chassis.
Sheet 3 , Cummins ISB/C ; shows 2, 110amp C/Bs delivering power, FROM the battery to the grid heater relays , circuits 1430 A&B . Unfortunately no member with a 99 F/L chassis equipped with a Cummins engine has stepped up to confirm if there are three F/L circuit breakers on this plate on their chassis. Compared to the two that are being dealt with here.

Now onto the maddening part .
Sheet 4 . Cat engines .
Shows a connection for the grid heater, right hand side , no relay shown !
Circuit C 995 , runs straight across the page to the left and a connector , saying " to chassis 110 amp C/B" , no C/B shown , no connection to the battery .

Actually tracking the power lead on the C/B on mine I found it hooked to the main power cable from the chassis batteries at the starter.

Digging through all the electrical components listed for my chassis on DTNA Connect, I finally found a second large C/B listed , that I'd missed on several occasions.

110 amp auto reset C/B ( P/N GAF 117811 ) a different supplier than the 135 amp unit ( BUS 181135P010)
Had they both been BUS #s , I might have caught on sooner. MIGHT being the operative word.
Anyhow , hopefully Injuredvet , get back to us soon with positive feed back about his C/B replacement .

Safe Travels .
Skip.

johns928 · 09-20-2018, 05:34 PM

It seems you are on the right track in thinking you have a bad ground somewhere. Think of it this way, electrical circuits need a path through which the current can flow. If one end of that path is interrupted, the circuit will fail. The fact that turning on either the air conditioner or the driving lights causes the failure, it is possible that both sides of the circuit are seeing 12V, thus no current will flow. The complication to this is that it doesn't happen right away but rather about 5 minutes later. This almost sounds like an automatically resetting circuit breaker that is causing a break in the circuit and could only be tested after the circuit fails. That is likely why the shops have not found it. Test your lights and air conditioner circuits back toward the batteries during a shut-down and see if you can determine where you are losing power. Hope this helps.

lewengel · 09-20-2018, 06:50 PM

I noticed in the video that the volt meter went to zero, and didn't return to 14 volts very quickly. This sounds like a break in voltage from the batteries to the chassis. Sound like a circuit breaker opening then resetting.

Dbl-l · 09-22-2018, 01:02 AM

Think you're right on about it being a ground problem. Especially with the corrosion from the trip to Pismo. I would look at all the grounds, especially the grounds from the chassis battery to the chassis and the ground to the engine. A bad ground can make the alternator overcharge. If the A/C and driving lights relay are close together I would look at wherever they get their ground from. I would also check the ignition switch and loose wires at the switch. But more likely a ground problem.

roya · 09-22-2018, 09:18 AM

That in a battery circuit the flow of current is negative (ground) to positive.
A bad ground creates a high resistance circuit causing more current to flow which adds to the heating at the self resetting cb.
IMHO you gentlemen are correct in suspecting the ground circuits. The OP will be doing himself a favor in replacing the breakers but all the grounds need to be cleaned and have no ox applied.

twinboat · 09-22-2018, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roya

That in a battery circuit the flow of current is negative (ground) to positive.
A bad ground creates a high resistance circuit causing more current to flow which adds to the heating at the self resetting cb.
IMHO you gentlemen are correct in suspecting the ground circuits. The OP will be doing himself a favor in replacing the breakers but all the grounds need to be cleaned and have no ox applied.

Resistance in a circuit, even from a bad connection, will not increase amp flow.

A simple light bulb in a circuit adds resistance. Adding more bulbs in series doesn't increase amps of that circuit. The bulbs just burn dimmer.

Its the same when using a dimmer in a circuit. Would that increase the current flow.

Sure, you will get heat AT the bad connection point, but if its not near the breaker, it won't overheat.

injuredvet · 02-04-2019, 07:13 PM

UPDATE!!! I wanted to return after being gone for a little while. I was finally able to install the relay and test the RV. Great news! The new $35.00 relay fixed the problems. It no longer stalls out after 7 or so minutes of using the cab A/C or the driving lights. I want to thank all those who chimed in, your advice on checking the relay was the problem. The dealer didn't even know what was causing the problem. I will be sure to give them the heads up so they can be aware of it next time. Again thank you for all your information and advice. This forum is the best!!!!!!!!!

Eztravel · 02-24-2019, 01:51 PM

I bought my 99 Tradewinds brand new and haven’t had any of the issues you’ve described. I’ve attached a picture of my dash and my voltage is reading similar to what yours. Did you ever find what the problem was?

Avian · 10-06-2019, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by injuredvet

UPDATE!!! I wanted to return after being gone for a little while. I was finally able to install the relay and test the RV. Great news! The new $35.00 relay fixed the problems. It no longer stalls out after 7 or so minutes of using the cab A/C or the driving lights. I want to thank all those who chimed in, your advice on checking the relay was the problem. The dealer didn't even know what was causing the problem. I will be sure to give them the heads up so they can be aware of it next time. Again thank you for all your information and advice. This forum is the best!!!!!!!!!

what relay did you replace...I am having the same problem...pictures?

neilticktin · 07-01-2022, 10:52 AM

This was a fabulous thread to follow (even a few years later) -- one more thing for those that are experiencing odd problems like this and are reading the thread.

I've had continuous electrical issues with our 2000 National Tradewinds -- but it was about National, it was the chassis. The problems ranged from:
• dash gauges periodically not registering at all
• temp gauges redlining
• dash AC (the Bain of my existence) issues
• camera not switching on with turn signal
• turning on overhead fan turning off radio
and the list goes on and on.

So far, this has turned out to be two issues ...

1) loose connectors on the low speed network for the Cat engine to chassis

2) someone cross threading the nut on the ground bolt on the fuse box, so that the ground was loose (was so bad, had to replace the fuse block base)

Just food for thought if you are running into crazy stuff.