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Old 03-11-2010, 06:47 PM   #1
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Buyer Beware!! RV Ins - Max payout of $3500 if hit by Uninsured or Hit & Run!!!

Does anyone know of a company who does not impose a ridiculous "Limit of Liability" of $3500? I'm finding that most people aren't even aware that their insurance has this limitation.

Our previous coach was with Foremost but on this coach I switched to Progressive because I got a better rate. That's when I started reading the contracts in detail and found out that most companies (including Progressive & Foremost) have a Limit of Liability (max amount they will pay out) of $3500 if you are hit by someone with no insurance or for a hit and run. And, they usually opt you out unless you specifically ask for it. That is a huge shocker and a big concern here in Southern California where we have too many u ninsured drivers.

Buyer beware!!! When I spoke with a few insurance companies they insisted we would be covered just the same - but they nevered mentioned this $3500 limit. You must read the contract yourself and talk with someone in underwriting or a supervisor who knows how to explain this. Do not believe the people who are writing the policy, most are not knowledgeable enough. I am now back to the drawing board. All ears in the meantime.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:28 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TangoDancers View Post
Does anyone know of a company who does not impose a ridiculous "Limit of Liability" of $3500? I'm finding that most people aren't even aware that their insurance has this limitation.

Our previous coach was with Foremost but on this coach I switched to Progressive because I got a better rate. That's when I started reading the contracts in detail and found out that most companies (including Progressive & Foremost) have a Limit of Liability (max amount they will pay out) of $3500 if you are hit by someone with no insurance or for a hit and run. And, they usually opt you out unless you specifically ask for it. That is a huge shocker and a big concern here in Southern California where we have too many u ninsured drivers.

Buyer beware!!! When I spoke with a few insurance companies they insisted we would be covered just the same - but they nevered mentioned this $3500 limit. You must read the contract yourself and talk with someone in underwriting or a supervisor who knows how to explain this. Do not believe the people who are writing the policy, most are not knowledgeable enough. I am now back to the drawing board. All ears in the meantime.
Susie,
My policy (AARP) has a premium for additional coverage for uninsured/and underinsured motorists. You can pay for as much coverage as you want additional. My understanding is that this is just for bodily injuries to you or your passengers. not for property damages. Normally, I have medical coverage to take care of me and mine. Other passengers hopefully will have the same protection from their own medical ins.

Marty
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Old 03-12-2010, 09:26 AM   #3
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Susie,
My policy (AARP) has a premium for additional coverage for uninsured/and underinsured motorists. You can pay for as much coverage as you want additional. My understanding is that this is just for bodily injuries to you or your passengers. not for property damages. Normally, I have medical coverage to take care of me and mine. Other passengers hopefully will have the same protection from their own medical ins.

Marty
Hi Marty -- I agree, there's no queation Bodily Injurportion is covered just fine. The big issue came up with regards to Property Damage (PD).

Thus far, I have spoke with supervisors at Progressive and Foremost regarding our RV Insurance and they both said we would not be covered for more than $3500 PD for uninsured or hit & run. I found this hard to believe, so I read my auto policy and it too appeared to have the same $3500 limitation. I just called my auto carrier (USAA) and asked for a Senior Advisor in Policy Service. Finally - I was able to speak with someone who knew these contracts inside and out. Now, I see in the contract where I'm covered for PD on my auto policy, so now I will review the RV policies "myself" since I now know what to look for. Hopefully I will discover the supervisors and policy folks at Progressive/Foremost/etc were all wrong.
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Old 03-12-2010, 11:35 AM   #4
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Resolved for now. They say it's covered by collision eventhough contract is unclear.

Okay, I just got off the phone with supervisors at both Progressive and Foremost both of whom claimed to be licensed insurance agents.

Just to reiterate, the concern is that all of these policies have separate sections for UMPD (uninsured motorist property damage) coverage which all have limits of $3500 (limits imposed by California). So, the assumption is, if you get hit by an uninsured (includes hit & run) that's the section of your policy that will cover you, not collision. There is nothing in any of these contracts (except my USAA policy) which clearly states that collision will pay if (1) you don't have UMPD coverage or (2) you have UMPD and your PD exceeds $3500.

By the way, this all started when Progressive sent me paperwork to sign in order to get the policy in effect and one of those pages stated that I had knowingly declined UMPD coverage - which I had not and was not even informed about. That's where the investigation began...

Foremost Ins -- still unable to clarify or show me where in their contract it "explicitly" stated that collision will pay for PD if the person at fault was uninsured. Yet, they tell me I would be covered no problem. Then she confused the issue by saying it depends in which state the accident happens depending if they are at-fault or no-fault and that the policy changes depending on the state you're in. Hmmh!! In some cases she said you might have a hard time getting paid. She escalated the call to yet another department because she agree that it's definitely not clear in the contract.

Progressive Ins -- told me the last supervisor (also a licensed agent) I spoke with was incorrect and that I "would" be covered by collision insurance. She went on to say the only reason for UMPD (uninsured motorist property damage) coverage is to cover your deductible or if the damage did not exceed $3500. But, she agreed the policy is unclear and does not explicitly state that collision will cover you in this case. She agreed to write me a letter stating that our RV would in fact be covered by collision and she said she plans to get this to the contract department in hopes they will eventually make the policy more clear.

So, for the moment, I believe we will stay with Progressive and keep our fingers crossed. I think in the end we're actually covered eventhough it appears they've left this area open for interpretation, which always has me concerned when it comes to insurance companies.
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Old 03-14-2010, 08:56 PM   #5
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Insurance is regulated state to state. An insurance company doing business in more than one state must write policies that conform to the state they are doing business in. So a Progressive policy, or any company's insurance policy, will be different in California than it is in say, Illinois.

All policies will have a limitation on Uninsured Driver Property Damage. In Illinois, the limit is $15,000 with a $250 deductible. If the accident was the fault of an Uninsured Driver AND you have Collision coverage, your damage will be paid for under your Collision coverage. The company will go after the at-fault driver personally and, if you are incredibly lucky, you will get your deductible back if the company collects any thing from them. The only time UDPD is added to a policy is when you DO NOT carry Collision coverage on your vehicle. The limit by state could be a factor in your determining whether or not you should carry collision coverage on your RV. If you can't absorb a loss over $3,500 in California, then you should carry Collision. You were asked sign acknowledging you were going to decline UDPD, but if you were carrying collision, you do not need it anyway and you would want to decline it. Otherwise, you'd be paying extra for a coverage you would not need.

I take issue with the insurance rep who told you it would make a difference in what state the collision occurred. You have a contract with an insurance company in the state you are doing business in and those are the laws that apply. It should not matter at all what in what state the accident happens.

Hope this answers your questions. Be glad to try and answer anymore.
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Old 03-15-2010, 06:43 AM   #6
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The other category is under-insured. I was involved in an accident where it involved 4 cars. The at fault Driver was a younger person whose policy had a $15,000.00 limit. His policy did not cover the damage to all cars. My insurance, Geico, paid the difference for my repairs and waived my deductible. I do have uninsured/under-insured coverage on my policy.

Another factor is stacked coverage. If you have multiple vehicles, your medical is stacked in Florida which means your maximum is the combined total of all of your insured vehicles. If you have 4 vehicles with $10K each, you have a total of $40K for any accident. If you are required to have medical, you can carry it on one vehicle and it covers all of your insured vehicles (at least with Geico) because of the stacked feature requirement in Florida.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:45 PM   #7
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Shonrt1, you sound like you know insurance pretty well, as do I, but, your insurance follows you state-to-state, but the laws of that state dictate how you get paid on a claim. No fault states like Florida and Michigan, for example, determine that YOUR policy pays to repair your damaged motorhome or car, even if your just passing through on your way back to Illinois, while the idiot who caused the damage to your vehicle gets to repair his own vehicle. So your rates go up on your policy due to the new "predictive modeling" being implemented by all of the insurance companies. Anyway, I hope you are also enjoying your National Rv, as am I.
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Old 03-15-2010, 07:55 PM   #8
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Tangodancers, I have read alot of insurance contracts from insurance companies over the years, and I have never read a contract that wouldn't pay under "physical damage", known as comprehensive and collision. Each state has different rules, and although $3500 seems awfully low for UMPD coverage, it's possible. Again that coverage is only offered/needed if you elected to forgo "physical damage" coverage on your vehicle. Also, wasn't California's minimum limits for liability coverage only $15k/$30k/$10k or was that changed recently?
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Old 03-16-2010, 09:35 AM   #9
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Tangodancers, I have read alot of insurance contracts from insurance companies over the years, and I have never read a contract that wouldn't pay under "physical damage", known as comprehensive and collision. Each state has different rules, and although $3500 seems awfully low for UMPD coverage, it's possible. Again that coverage is only offered/needed if you elected to forgo "physical damage" coverage on your vehicle. Also, wasn't California's minimum limits for liability coverage only $15k/$30k/$10k or was that changed recently?
Yes, you are correct, they will in fact pay under collision coverage. However, some of the contracts don't explicitly or even implicitly state this - they've left it quite gray. With my lack of trust for insurance companies I wanted clarification and all of this in writing, but in the process several supervisors initially told me I wouldn't be covered even if I had collision. When I escalated further I found that many of the people (supervisors) I spoke with gave me completely inaccurate information. Therefore, I believe no-one and I want it all spelled out in the contract. I was able to get them to give me a written statement ot clarify the contract, so I feel better now. In my auto policy it's definitely more clear but you have to read it well to figure this out.

Now, regarding liability, I'm not exactly sure about the minimums in California as I carry the absolute highest along with an umbrella policy.

All's well for now.... and yes, loving the Dolphin and the people who own them!!
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:14 AM   #10
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With my lack of trust for insurance companies I wanted clarification and all of this in writing, but in the process several supervisors initially told me I wouldn't be covered even if I had collision. When I escalated further I found that many of the people (supervisors) I spoke with gave me completely inaccurate information. Therefore, I believe no-one and I want it all spelled out in the contract.

This is a great example of why it pays to work with a local agent as opposed to buying your insurance over the phone or internet. If an agent tells you something, he should have Errors and Omissions insurance to back it up. That should give you one more level of protection over talking to some random voice over the phone.
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Old 03-16-2010, 10:23 AM   #11
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Shonrt1, you sound like you know insurance pretty well, as do I, but, your insurance follows you state-to-state, but the laws of that state dictate how you get paid on a claim. No fault states like Florida and Michigan, for example, determine that YOUR policy pays to repair your damaged motorhome or car, even if your just passing through on your way back to Illinois, while the idiot who caused the damage to your vehicle gets to repair his own vehicle. So your rates go up on your policy due to the new "predictive modeling" being implemented by all of the insurance companies. Anyway, I hope you are also enjoying your National Rv, as am I.


You are correct. I was referring more to how they were insinuating the provisions of his policy would change depending on what state the damage occured. What I meant was if he had Collision, he would be paid for his damages, regardless of what state he was in. I think we are in agreement on this issue.

BTW, I am enjoying my National, even though it has only sat in my driveway so far. Finally warmed up enough for me to drain the anti-freeze out of my coach and I found out I have a leaking water line when I use the water pump. Now I'm going to have to tear into the water panel tonight. I can still hear the guy I bought it from telling me "there is absolutely nothing wrong with this RV at all"!
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Old 03-16-2010, 03:49 PM   #12
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shonrt1, there probably isn't anything really wrong with your motorhome. A common problem is that you will need to remove the water panel and tighten up the loose connection that runs to the water pump. You will be able to see visible water damage if it has been leaking for a long time. Good Luck. I am sure you bought it for a steal as our motorhome has really dropped in value since the economy and National Rv flopped.
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Old 03-16-2010, 05:11 PM   #13
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Many years ago I came to the conclusion that some basic insurance principles should be included in the written exam we all had to take to get our first license. I'm now about to retire after over 30 years in the business.

Problem here is, we're mixing and confusing coverages. This is compounded by usually confusing individual state requirements making it difficult for the insurance consumer to fully understand what is going on.

Firstly, comprehensive and collision coverages are 'first party' coverages. You buy these to protect your property (the vehicle). You are covered, subject to the deductible you choose, regardless of who or what caused the accident. Companies have worked hard to make their policies both understandable AND compliant with the appropriate statutes and contract law. It's not always easy.

In virtually all states you can purchase 'under or uninsured' coverage that protects you from the financial burden of any bodily injury you suffer, in an accident caused by someone else that has no insurance, or not enough. This is different, but often confused with, the PROPERTY under/uninsured coverage available in select states (where mandated). Personally I don't see the value of the 'property U' coverages. If the car, truck or motor home is worth protecting (you could not afford to fix or replace it on your own), just buy 'regular' comp and collision coverage and be done with it.

Now, as to the point of what your policy will cover if you have an accident while out of state. All insurance is regulated at the state level. Every state has laws on the books unique to that state. So as not leave their customers 'hanging', when traveling out of state, virtually all policies will have some language to the effect that if you incur a loss in another state your coverage will be amended so as to comply with that states laws. What you'll get is the better of what you bought or what the state in which the accident took place requires. If for example, your home state only requires $10k of property liability coverage (covers damage you caused to others) but the state you have your accident in requires a minimum of $50K, you will automatically have $50k in protection while traveling in that state. By the same token, if you have $50k at home, but the state you are in only requires $10k, you'll have the $50k of protection. At MINIMUM, you will always have what you paid for back home.

No fault is a whole other animal. The stated intention of legislative bodies that enacted it was that it would make the claim process easier and bring down costs. It's done neither, in my opinion, but it definately has NOT brought down costs. No fault states tend to have amoung the highest premiums. "Pure" no fault might have worked (if I want to protect my property or family, I buy coverage for my property and family), but it does not exist in it's pure form anywhere. Every state has tinkered with it to the point that it is so totally... You get the idea.
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Old 03-19-2010, 03:46 PM   #14
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JMonroe, well put. I have over 20 yrs in and alot has changed over the years. Insurance companies are having to reinvent themselves on multiple levels in order to stay competitive in business. Marketing departments come up with ideas to increase retention like first accident forgiveness, 1 yr rate locks, declining deductibles, new car replacement. The acturial department is frantically trying to tweek their company's propietary predictive model. The sales department is trying to motivate their sales force, usually without success. The bean counters who usually run the insurance company are quietly changing their auto and home contracts to reduce claim payouts and increase their profit, their even offering different price points for the same risk customer, all in the name of profit. I wish I was ready to retire!!!!
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