Newbie needs HELPPPPPP FAST!!

[RUNDLC]

Hi All, I am wondering if someone can give me some advice on a 1998 tradewinds, it has a 300 hp turbo cat with about 50K. I would be coming from a HR endeavor 460 gas unit which I have only owned for a year. The wife and I replaced the carpet, wood flooring (to vinyl her request) redid all the valances, redid the couch, dinette to booth and replaced all the light fixtures. Now if I buy this one we'll have to do the same thing! Crap!!

We are pretty new to the RV world, but understand fully that taking a gas coach over the grapevine to LA is not a pretty picture..... So now we are looking at this one.

A few questions if I may

Is 44K too much in this market? There are a few things that need to be taken care of but overall it seems nice, I plan to do a test drive tomorrow (12/22/09) Any advice from TW owners would be appreciated.

Is the turbo cat with a allison 6 sp a good powertrain? (freightliner chassis)
I was told by a friend that I may have better luck with a cummins.

I was told buy the salespersons assistant that he drove from Victorville to Sacramento and got about 12 miles to the gallon?? Could this be right?

Overall the coach looks pretty good other than those pesky decals being all bubbled.

Is national a good builder? how do the rate to say HR?


TIA folks and happy trails to all.


RUNDLC

[JVJ]

I can't help you with much as to your questions, except maybe one. There was a recent post online as to the MPG of the C7 CAT 350HP motor. The true world average on the 350HP seems to run right in the 7.7MPG range. This is what we got on our maiden voyage last week from PA to TX in cold wet weather with an average speed of around 60 (taking into account idle time, traffic, lots of hills, fuel stops and such). However when traffic would allow the coach did see 70 MPH with the cruise on.
One thing to also keep in mind as to what the sales person or their assistant tells you, is for the greater part...Don't Believe Much if Any of It!! They have a true vested interest in selling that coach.

[speed racer]

I hate to say this but never beleive a salesman when he is trying to sell you something. find out for yourself. reliability of a Cat. engine depends on what engine it is. The 3208 was considered a throw away engine(replace it rather than repair it) but other models are good reliable engines.

[sgtjoe]

RUNDLC, if it's the 3126 12 is possible if they drove it at the posted Calif. speed limit of 55mph. My 2001 Tradewinds 39' has run at 60-65 with the Toad and we have seen 10-11 on mostly flat ground. I try to keep mine at about 62mph, seems to be the sweet spot. You didn't say how long it was. As far as the quality of the Nationals, I think it's pretty good and am real happy with mine. Although they were one of the first to go under, it was not from the quality of their RV's. It was bad management decisions from what I've heard. We spend about 8 months a year in our's and have had no problems. As far as the drive train with the Cat 300 and the Alliston tranny, IMHO it's a good match. We live in the SLC Valley of Utah and we pull the steep long grade on I-80 east a lot during the summer and usually at 55mph.
A couple of things to check and verify:
1. The hydraulic fluid tank for the leveling jacks had a poor installation design on a few years on the Tradewinds and they would vibrate loose and fall off. The tank was mounted on a welded bracket off the frame. If this one is set up that way check the Tank to see if the Mod kit has been installed. It should have a bar between the Tank and frame with a strap holding it in place.
2. Some of the Freightliner Chassis had a short oil blow by tube installed which caused the radiator to clog, not sure if this applied to the 1998 ones. Check the radiator to be sure it is clean. Pull the access panel in the bedroom and look at the radiator, be sure to look at the outer edges for dirt and oil residue. I learned this the hard way and at a cost of 756.00 to pull and clean mine.
3. The tranny has some programmable updates that made it shift better, see if those have been done.
Lastly, coming from a gasser to a DP is a whole world of difference. I use to get aches in my shoulders after a a few hours driving my old gasser and it was a witch to handle when 18 wheelers passed and pulled in too close. It was also afraid of the wind. The DP is a heck of a lot easier to handle and no more shoulder pain. I can even drink coffee and drive one handed as the trks pass me.
Does the dealer have the maint. records?
Check the tires for dates of mfg, new set could be around 2500.00
Hope this helps.
As far as price, if you really want it, I would offer a lower price and see how low you can get them. Remember, it is a buyers market and there are a lot of good used DP's out there.

[RUNDLC]

Thanks all! I do plan on having a truck service do a full inspection on the chassis. The coach is 36' long. I will find out today which cat engine is installed. Would it be a better idea to go to a cat dealer to have the train looked at or a regular diesel truck place?

Hmmmm 10 miles at 62 MPH sounds pretty good, better than my 460, although on flat land she's not too bad.

The guy is willing to deal and will take my gasser for trade. I will let ya'll know the outcome.

There are no records at all, one thing that kinda bugs me is that it has only 50k on the clock, is that a good thing? Only about 4400 miles per year.

[Nonno]

RUNDLC,

Check this out, it may give you an idea on value.
RV 1998 NATIONAL RV Motor Homes prices, specs and options at NADAguides.com

[sgtjoe]

WoW, if it has the one slide it's over priced by 10,000.00 and if no slide 20,000.00. And no records, I would walk away. But that's just me. Ask to talk to the previous owner.

[PJGMG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JVJ I can't help you with much as to your questions, except maybe one. There was a recent post online as to the MPG of the C7 CAT 350HP motor. The true world average on the 350HP seems to run right in the 7.7MPG range. This is what we got on our maiden voyage last week from PA to TX in cold wet weather with an average speed of around 60 (taking into account idle time, traffic, lots of hills, fuel stops and such). However when traffic would allow the coach did see 70 MPH with the cruise on. One thing to also keep in mind as to what the sales person or their assistant tells you, is for the greater part...Don't Believe Much if Any of It!! They have a true vested interest in selling that coach.

Rundlc... I have a C7 CAT 350HP and I'm in the same ballpark 7-8 MPG... ONCE I read the calculation and thought I was getting 12... ... then my math error hit..

[sgtjoe]

Don't let them start adding the accessories to build the price. They won't add them on your gasser.

[EngineerMike]

Salesman mileage is equal to truthful mileage times a fraud factor, which varies by the salesman but is >1 in 99.99% of cases. Sometimes laughably greater than 1.

National's executive suite blamed a significant amount of their bankruptcy on product defect claims, exceptionally heavy in the area of sidewall fiberglass defects. I suspect some of that was smoke screen to cover up overall lousy management, but the fiberglass problems were huge for NRV. Check the fiberglass carefully; that problem may have come along after this coach was built.

Never heard the 3208 was a "throw-away." That's a first for me. It was used fairly extensively in over the road trucks, but I think was phased out prior to 1997 (probably build date of this coach). Cat has since bailed on the over-the-road market for new engines. About 30% of motorhome diesel-pusher engines were Cat, the wide majority of the balance were Cummins, with some detroit and a few others. If you are looking for the broadest installed base so as to get the widest available experience base with fellow users and technicians, Cummins is the way to go. For the Cat, you can take the engine serial#, call Cat & see if there are outstanding campaigns (engine software updates, etc) on the engine and get those done before purchase. Same w/a Cummins if you switch targets.

Rear radiator is popular in the price range you are hitting. As mentioned above, there can be problems w/engine blow-by oiling the radiator which then plugs w/dirt and overheating is the result. You can easily check this (well, easy might be relative) w/a visual inspection on the forward face of the radiator. This is easily cured except for the cleaning part which is a messy pain. If you get a rear radiator rig, do some searches here on iRV2 for the various cures. Likewise, in rear radiator configs, it is common to have some plastic stuff visible thru the rear louvers that dies in ultra-violet light; again that is curable except part of the cure is to replace old cracking parts w/new, then cover them from direct sun so they don't die a premature death, again. Rear radiator can also be an issue w/thrown rocks causing economically painful leaks; some rigs have a rock guard screen setup, and most should IMO, along w/good blow-by protection.

[bldrbob]

I have a 2000 Tradewinds.I bought it with 81000 miles. It now has 124000 miles and I have averaged 8.5 mpg. towing a Honda CR V.That includes fuel used to run the generator.
I tell people since I average 8.5 towing that is two vehicles so I am getting 17 mpg.
BOB

[Vegasdan]

Just bought a 2001 2 slide 37ft Tradewinds with 75K miles. Your price is a little high but the miles are good. You'll get 10 MPG if you set it on cruise at 63MPH. I just drove mine 2500 miles and that is what I averaged. That engine trans combination were "made for each other", very smooth, quiet up front, and will walk away from semis going up a hill.

[Vegasdan]

And, National built a good coach, just had bad management. I have Zero fiberglass problems.

[sgtjoe]

Unlike another mfger that also went under, National caught the Fiberglass program inhouse and not many got out of the factory before being corrected. I have not heard of any owners that have had a problem with delamination of their sidewalls.