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Old 10-04-2014, 09:51 AM   #43
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And this is why, one, I am not buying my first motorhome used, and, two, why I'm searching to a manufacturer who will go the extra mile to get it right the first time. I just don't want to pay over $100,000 for somebody else's POS, lemon. Life is too short and I'm not anywhere close to be knowledgeable enough to examine, especially a used, motorhome to find problems before buying. I'm in the process of researching to find a quality manufacturer who simply refuses to let a badly built unit out of his factory.

I was hoping Bob Tiffin might be such a manufacturer. It appears not.

Guess I'll return to looking at Newmar coaches.
Interesting. After reading a bit on the Newmar owners group here I find they have many problems too ... leaks, step problems, generator problems, shore power relay box, TV problems, slide issues, refrigerator problems, etc. etc.

Perhaps you should up the ante and look at a Marathon on a Prevost chassis??
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:05 AM   #44
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I bought a Chevy Suburban years ago and like your Tiffin, it had issues when I picked it up and I took it as they were waiting for parts,so don't feel bad for taking delivery when you new there were issues( but I will never do that again). Long story short over the next three months it went from bad to worse and it ended up being in the shop for two of those months, with me getting it back fo a few days here and there only to take it back because it was never fixed right. I kept good records, of both what was done and who I spoke to.

I called the Chevy corporate number and was assigned a Rep fom Chevy to speak with and oversee the repairs of my Suburban. I was civil as I could be and he really understood my frustration. I let the rep inspect the vehicle after they "fixed it" one last time and after seeing what they did he ordered the dealer to order me a new suburban and work the deal as a collateral exchange so that I lost no money(sales taxes/registration ect). In getting to know this guy he told me the last thing any manufacturer wants to do is get a lemon law issue slapped on them, and he felt I was justified. They would rather take the vehicle back and sell it as used, than have to part out the vehicle as the way he explained it to me if it became a "lemon law" vehicle they could not even sell it again. I have had the new Suburban for several years and close to 100,000 miles and it has never been in the shop.

Somebody else mentioned California has the best Lemon Laws but I don't know how it could vary that much from State to State.

I would hope now that you have served Tiffin with the Lemon Law papers you mentioned that they will assign you a Rep. Stay on this and do not accept anything that is not the quality you expected when you bought it. If it is not fixed to your satisfaction tell them you want a collateral exchange or you will persue the lemon law route....Good Luck
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:17 AM   #45
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Ed, they can all have issues as they are built by humans, and things do break. The basic difference is that when you get a Newmar any repair work needed is done prior to the vehicle being delivered or put out on the floor for sale. I was told by a Tiffin dealer that they don't do any repairs(unless they are safety related) after delivery, until the purchase is made. They get more money for warranty work than they do for PDI work. I think Tiffin is a quality MH, and I'm not bashing them, we almost bought the 36LA. It's just maybe the dealers aren't held to the same accountability level that Newmar expects from their franchise owners. I have several freinds with Tiffins and it has not been uncommon for them to have their MH's out of service for several weeks waiting for warranty work that should have never got past the dealers.

Re-read those threads that you speak of, yes you might see issues here and there with Newmar, but what you don't see as a rule is people not being able to use their MH's for several weeks due to warranty issues. Quality is in they eye of the beholder.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:47 AM   #46
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Understood, Mike. The only issue I have with your comments is that almost all problems are not detected until AFTER a sale and the new owner takes delivery. Thus, any claim that repairs are done by Newmar before sales really don't provide much help to the customer.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:20 PM   #47
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Ed, I realize that some things will happen with the MH after the sale, but so far the only issues we have had were a micro wave recall issue, and a headlight trim piece that came off in transit(had to be ordered), and a switch replaced . We had some minor adjustments that were made and some things that we just needed to be told how to work right as we were doing it wrong and it seemed as if the issue was a defect but it was our "pilot error". I know my dealer did more than the PDI as I saw a list of things the driver who transported it 2400 miles reported, and they were fixed or replaced prior to us even seeing it. The dealer and the driver unpack the MH at delivery and discuss any issues with it so they can be fixed prior to putting it out for sale. So in that sense yes, repairs done by Newmar before the sale really do help the customer as they don't have to bring it back for nonsense stuff.

Anyway knock on wood so far we have had ours 8 months, and have put 6000 miles on it taking several trips, one that lasted a month. So far ours has been in the shop for a total of 4 hours(not days) to get all that I mentioned fixed or adjusted. I waited with the MH and they showed me how to fix or adjust things if needed again, and I drove my MH the same day.I call that customer service.

We were about to buy the 36LA, and other than the dealer General Manager being a complete idiot, the big issue I had was that they wouldn't fix anything prior to us making the purchase. I'm not talking about things that go wrong after you drive it for awhile. This was not just one of their Tiffins it was several. Interior walls that were pulling away from the sides, front cap molding pulling away, paint issues,cracked windshields, leaking water fixtures, heating/cooling ducts hanging below the dash board, a cracked sink ect ect ect...You won't see that out on a Newmar floor for sale(at least not at the dealers I was looking at)with the one we were going to buy, I made it pretty simple I would buy it once everything was fixed and ready to roll. They said the way it works is that I buy it and pay for it, then they drive it over to their Service shop and we would be put at the front of the line for "warranty work" and it would only be a couple of weeks. They assured us everything would be fixed "after we bought it" We had a really good repor the sales guy as we had been there several times and he told us they do this because the service dept makes more on warrany work than PDI and they have to make some money too. He also said their service keeps them in business when sales are slow. When I said no he tried to get it done my way but couldn't work it out??? So we took our business to Newmar and we felt it was the best thing we ever did, moreso after talking and RV'ing with all our friends who have Tiffins. I'm sure not every Tiffin dealer works this way and there are probably some good ones out there who don't jerk you around, but we found with the Newmars you get treated a little better before and after the sale.Again I'm not bashing Tiffin, it's the dealers and their mentallity of not putting the customer first that creates issues. I think if Bob Tiffin came down on the dealers who have his franchise, things would get alot better for Tiffin.
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Old 10-04-2014, 01:59 PM   #48
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Very good, Mike. Well, I may be just lucky, but so far after our first year+ of ownership of our Allegro we have had essentially zero problems. I did get my inverter replaced through TrippLite under their warranty because it would not work in the Equalize function. . . but essentially our 34TGA has been flawless ( I am knocking on wood! )
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Old 10-04-2014, 02:33 PM   #49
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Ed, like I said we really liked the Tiffins and I think they are a great product it is just some of the dealers that are in question, so I don't think you are just lucky(well I guess we all are if we don't have any majors issues, like you said "knock on wood").You probably bought from a dealer who valued their customers. Down this way we don't have too many Tiffin dealers to choose from, so they kind of rule the market. I had to drive 80 miles to look at the Newmars.

We were down to the Tiffin 34TGA(we liked the opposing slides and separate shower/toilet set up) and the 36LA with the bath and a half until the dealer upset us( and it was way more than the things that needed fixed). In fact most of our searches both new and used were Tiffins and we bragged about them so much my brother in law went out and bought one without looking at any other brands. He has had great luck with his too( he was a little taken back when we bought the Newmar).

Good luck in your travels, maybe we'll meet someday as we love going up to Oregon, we spent 2 weeks there in July and may be headed that way next week. We are kind of watching the weather, it's either East to the Grand canyon, Tuscon, Tombstone, type route or up the coast again...Take care Mike
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Old 10-04-2014, 02:53 PM   #50
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Interesting. After reading a bit on the Newmar owners group here I find they have many problems too ... leaks, step problems, generator problems, shore power relay box, TV problems, slide issues, refrigerator problems, etc. etc.
Perhaps you should up the ante and look at a Marathon on a Prevost chassis??
IMO the reason you see no complaints on an internet forum about Marathon, or Prevost, coaches is because anyone who spent that kind of money for a RV is to embarrassed to tell anyone they got the shaft.
I know I would be.
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Old 10-04-2014, 10:47 PM   #51
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Interesting. After reading a bit on the Newmar owners group here I find they have many problems too ... leaks, step problems, generator problems, shore power relay box, TV problems, slide issues, refrigerator problems, etc. etc.

Perhaps you should up the ante and look at a Marathon on a Prevost chassis??
Ed, first I acknowledge that as of now what I know about Tiffin and Newmar motorhomes, and about how each company checks them out before transferring them to a buyer or a dealer, is from these forums. From everyone who has posted their experience picking up their new coaches directly from the factory, Newmar checks each unit out using several people and taking a number of days -- with the new owner right there looking over their shoulders -- at an extra cost of around $3000. And they fix absolutely EVERYTHING 100% before the unit leaves the factory. For me at least, that would be worth the extra expense since there is no way I could find one tenth of the problems immediately.

I do realize that after delivery things can go bad, but I think there is no excuse for things not to be checked out and fixed before sending them to dealers.

Thanks for your comments and thoughts. The more I learn from these fora (plural for forums?), the less likely I will go through what the OP experienced. After paying over a hundred thousand dollars (or much more), I would be incredibly pissed to be treated the way some buyers have been treated.

And I am especially appreciative for the idea and insights I've received from Mike of Mike ad Cha, both on and off line. Thanks, Mike.
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Old 10-06-2014, 01:08 AM   #52
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Ed, first I acknowledge that as of now what I know about Tiffin and Newmar motorhomes, and about how each company checks them out before transferring them to a buyer or a dealer, is from these forums. From everyone who has posted their experience picking up their new coaches directly from the factory, Newmar checks each unit out using several people and taking a number of days -- with the new owner right there looking over their shoulders -- at an extra cost of around $3000. And they fix absolutely EVERYTHING 100% before the unit leaves the factory. For me at least, that would be worth the extra expense since there is no way I could find one tenth of the problems immediately.

I do realize that after delivery things can go bad, but I think there is no excuse for things not to be checked out and fixed before sending them to dealers.

Thanks for your comments and thoughts. The more I learn from these fora (plural for forums?), the less likely I will go through what the OP experienced. After paying over a hundred thousand dollars (or much more), I would be incredibly pissed to be treated the way some buyers have been treated.

And I am especially appreciative for the idea and insights I've received from Mike of Mike ad Cha, both on and off line. Thanks, Mike.
If i understood your post right. Newmar has a service where you can go to the factory watch them check everything out before you pick it up and you pay 3000.00 for the service.

I would not be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coach and then pay an extra 3000 to have them check it out and fix warranty items before i leave. That would stop me from buying one immediately.
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Old 10-06-2014, 06:55 PM   #53
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If i understood your post right. Newmar has a service where you can go to the factory watch them check everything out before you pick it up and you pay 3000.00 for the service.

I would not be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a coach and then pay an extra 3000 to have them check it out and fix warranty items before i leave. That would stop me from buying one immediately.
Hey that's a sweet deal, get extra money for fixing things that should have been correct to begin with......
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Old 10-06-2014, 07:11 PM   #54
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IMO the reason you see no complaints on an internet forum about Marathon, or Prevost, coaches is because anyone who spent that kind of money for a RV is to embarrassed to tell anyone they got the shaft.
I know I would be.
I have a 99 Prevost, Country Coach conversion, and love it. It had 120K miles on it and I've been through almost every state, to include Alaska. It is rock solid, quiet, and dependable. It's on Prevost's most proven chassis, the riveted stainless steal XL-45.

I have many friends with new and newer Prevost conversions. They too seldom have had a problem.

Yes, there are no where near the number of Prevost conversions as high end traditional RVs. However, there are an awful lot of Prevost entertainer conversions. Many of these are running 100K miles a year; some 250K miles a year. These too seldom have a problem.

Prevost conversions aren't for everyone, but many overlook the value of an older Prevost conversion. I went from an 08 42-foot quad slide Beaver, which was a great coach, but I wouldn't go back.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:05 PM   #55
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[QUOTE=garykk;2258749]Hey that's a sweet deal, get extra money for fixing things that should have been correct to begin with......[/QUOTE

Yep it is. Actually I look it as. We are just going to do our routine QA inspection as we build. We are not going to check out the coach to make sure everything works when it is finished ( Reminds you of the guys doing quality control on the HUBBELL telescope doesnt it. We are going to sell it to you and then you can bring it back in with your list and we will fix it. Or if you want the inspection it should have had in the first place you can pay for doing it seperately
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Old 10-08-2014, 07:04 AM   #56
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You can't find all the bugs before delivery.....You got to use it.......I bought 3 tiffins this year and all them had small problems, but only living and driving them did some of these showed up....I will tell you Tiffin and our dealer fixed everyone of them....I am sitting in Phoeix at RV Resort next to Newmar and spoke with them about their delivery.....Problems came about after using the MH.....Their dealer did fix the itmes needed before leaving for Phoenix, the only problem was the time to get it in for repair..3 weeks....
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