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trx430ex · 12-16-2017, 11:22 PM

Has any of this been talked about at Tiffin? I know there is a ton of things to figure out. But we have a twin 50 amp in 240 to charge nationwide.

Is there a "Skunk works" at Tiffin, that is going over this math? The next generation. If we can get to 300 KW of storage, this could work.

It is also 120 volt 24/7. (in silence)

The strength of design is in existing infrastructure that can charge 24/7 in twin legs of 120.

Think about it, we get rid of diesel moving parts. And get rid of lead acid batteries. it is a much more simple design.

Power to weight/maintenance.

I do know that the first all electric coach that can do 250 miles will win the day.

BigBillSD · 12-16-2017, 11:41 PM

It would be interesting to see what the batteries will cost for the 500 mile range... I saw the truck marketing blurb, but there wasn't a price on t, hat one either.

I leased one of the first Nissan Leaf's to hit the US. Build # 448. best car i ever drove. Bought it to commute, but ended up parking my truck for the 3 years I leased it except to haul stuff once in a while.

That car cost almost nothing to run and service. The 7500 mile service was $19, the only thing to do was to rotate the tires. The 15k service was a little more as they replaced the wiper blades and cabin filter too.

And I had it programed to only charge between midnight and 5am so it cost 95 cents a day to commute 45 miles to work and back.

Of course if a new allegro bus cost the same as a prevost, well, it will be on my wish list, but not necessarily in my budget range even though there is no service cost.. I wonder how many days it will take to charge it at the low rate available only 5 hours per day.

Changeup · 12-17-2017, 11:54 AM

I look forward to the first Tesla semi conversion.

Sweetbriar · 12-17-2017, 12:19 PM

Tiffin might be a candidate with their in house Power Glide chassis but until there is coast to coast service centers available that support heavy vehicles electrically powered I don't think a house builder is going to take the risk. Strand an owner, who paid half a mill for a coach, hundreds of miles from the nearest facility that can help with a breakdown would be a pretty big black eye for a builder. And if doesn't matter who built the chassis it's the house builder who sold you the coach.

I think the first one will be something along the lines of a Sprinter based coach followed by a progression thru heavier applications such as class C's and then into the A's as the technology and support matures. When you see Greyhound buses (not inner city or school buses) and a maybe 1/3 of the long haul trucks running down the road on batteries 40+ foot class A's won't be far behind. It will happen just not next year.

nothermark · 12-17-2017, 12:40 PM

I think you will see the jump go small B to A. The small B for the folks who just have to go EV for bragging rights. They don't need so much power to feed them. The DP equivalent A if they every get the long haul trucks and charging stations working. Charging will be as big an issue as the batteries for range. Too many places are too far off the popular paths for any kind of quick charger or the power to feed them. Price will be up there but the larger cost of a DP drive line will help off set it.

250 miles for a coach is a bad joke. The small folks want to sight see and will need more range. The big boys want the range. They may not need it every day but they want it when they need it to get somewhere.

Changeup · 12-17-2017, 01:02 PM

Agreed for the most part, though I think adoption will be more balanced. Freight company requirements are much less forgiving than those of recreational users. There'll still be the early adopter thing and a big rig version of range anxiety, but the interest in electric RVs is already here.

The first class A EVs will be (are?) custom, perhaps with bonkers solar and a mysterious diesel generator toad, until big-Watt charging becomes more widespread. Those people tend to do it for themselves and will be relatively forgiving around their own design parameters.

trx430ex · 12-17-2017, 10:02 PM

I was going balls deep in the infrastructure of the campgrounds pedestal, that is twin 50 amp 24/7. The rig would operate off it's own storage, but tap the pedestal 24/7.

The math starts at how many KW hours of energy are in a single gallon of diesel? It all scales from there.

We also have to realize in the formula, that once 120 volts is available from storage coach wide 24/7. A lot more is going to be demanded from storage, like turning on AC's. It's not just drivetrain.

But look at the weight we get to trade, we lose the diesel motor, the lead acid, the transmission, and the gas tank.And all that wiring.How much weight is all that in trade?

But we keep the 12.5 or 10 Onan, and a small tank as a backstop.Does Onan make a 15 or 20K genny?

Tiffin has all the data needed in a boat ton of file cabinets to model. If that can be digitized. We get to see how every Tiffin that went to Red Bay was used. That determines drivetrain VS domestic power split in storage.

nothermark · 12-17-2017, 11:37 PM

I think there are a couple of other posts where they did the math. The 50 Amp service will not charge a large truck overnight let alone run the rest of an all electric DP sized MH. Might do a B or C.

allegro1x · 12-18-2017, 04:41 AM

I think our friend trx430ex likes to come up with a lot of off the wall posts to see how many people will respond. Dave

Rkesselus · 12-18-2017, 05:35 AM

Go on U tube and take a look at Adept Ape video on the future of Diesel. It includes Tesla's work on long haul Semi's. Also looking into the charging question, the chargers will in in the vehicle so all that is need is a 220/240 volt receptacle to plug into.

nothermark · 12-19-2017, 05:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rkesselus

Go on U tube and take a look at Adept Ape video on the future of Diesel. It includes Tesla's work on long haul Semi's. Also looking into the charging question, the chargers will in in the vehicle so all that is need is a 220/240 volt receptacle to plug into.

The charge controller will be built in. That does not change the amount of power the battery needs. What it does is control the rate line power is fed to the battery bank. That depends on how much power is available from the mains plug in. It's all a balance of power available vs time allowed to charge the vehicle. Either one can be limited. If one is limited to a 50 Amp 240 V feed how long does it take to feed 200 KWH of storage?

ekim · 12-19-2017, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothermark

If one is limited to a 50 Amp 240 V feed how long does it take to feed 200 KWH of storage?

200,000 Watt Hours
----------------------- = 16.7 Hours
(50*240)Watt

DSL417 · 12-19-2017, 08:04 PM

Semi-truck will have to have a 5-600 mile range per day (even more for team drivers) to work for drivers paid by the mile in a ten hour day. I know Tesla is touting it, but would seem to need some serious new battery technologies. I have to believe the first place you'll see this innovation for Class As will be like every other new technology...starting with Prevost and Newell class coaches. And even then at a premium. JMHO

nothermark · 12-19-2017, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekim

200,000 Watt Hours
----------------------- = 16.7 Hours
(50*240)Watt

Looks like one can almost make a B or C work. That would be with every other day or a short day every other. Need time for the house to run.

I could be wrong but I think the Tesla long range is 400KWH. No way that will recharge overnight in a campground with a 50 A plug.

For grins I did a bit of digging. This article says 1200KWH:

https://insideevs.com/tesla-electric...ossal-battery/

Any way they slice it I think it will be a while before we see an all electric DP as anything other than a demo or "because I could" product. I do expect to see some EV semi's in short run delivery and reasonable terminal to terminal runs but they have different requirements. It should be interesting times...