Allegro 34TGA FRED

[Gary the Wombat]

We are considering moving up to this MH from our little Winnie Sightseer 26P. I really like the floorplan, especially the opposing slides in the living area which make it feel huge compared to what we have now. My wife also like having 2 lav sinks (of course).

Anyone have any thoughts on this rig? Is the 300HP diesel strong enough for this size, plus towing a Jeep Wrangler?

The MSRP is $138,000. What would be a good offer? $110K?

[Gary the Wombat]

We are considering moving up to this MH from our little Winnie Sightseer 26P. I really like the floorplan, especially the opposing slides in the living area which make it feel huge compared to what we have now. My wife also like having 2 lav sinks (of course).

Anyone have any thoughts on this rig? Is the 300HP diesel strong enough for this size, plus towing a Jeep Wrangler?

The MSRP is $138,000. What would be a good offer? $110K?

[NYMoose "Lenny"]

Gary,
I have heard great things about the FRED. I don't think you would have any problems towing the Wrangler. I have to say, I wont buy a MH again unless it has Opposing slides, it make a HUGE difference to me! Good luck, on the average I would say 15-20%MSRP is the norm.

[Funtogo]

Gary,it should tow it, but you might have weight considerations if you are close to gvrw. I would try to get 25-26% off. Sent you a p/m.
Johnny

[Gary the Wombat]

Thanks for the info Johnny--got your PM.

We are still in the early stages as yet, so we'll take all that into consideration. Maybe we need to go bigger or to a pusher to have a better cargo and towing capacity.

[Cruzer]

I personally think that the 34TGA is a great choice in an entry level coach. So does my brother-in-law, who bought one. The FRED has plenty of power to move it along, but then so does the Ford. My only concern is with the towing capacity. It's not limited by the engine, but it is by the transmission.

The Allegro FRED differs from the Allegro Bay FRED. The Allegro gets the 300 HP Cummins ISB while the Bay gets the 340 HP ISB. The reason for this is that the Bay gets the Allison 2100, which is rated for more power and also more GCWR than the Allison 2200 which is found in the Allegro. The 2200 limits the horsepower to 300 and the GCWR to 24,000 lbs. The Allegro Bay's more robust Allison 2100 can handle the full 340 HP of the ISB and the GCWR goes up to 30K.

Now a 34TGA on a FRED has a GVWR of 24K. "If" you load it up to the full rated GVWR you'll only have an extra 2K left over for towing. "If" you only load it up to 21,500 you'll have an extra 4,500 lbs left over for towing.

An Allegro Bay FRED has a GVWR of 26K and a GCWR of 30K so "if" you load it up to fiull GVWR you'd still have 4K left for towing.

That is my ONLY concern with an otherwise great coach.

By the way, an offer of $108-110K is in the ballpark for that model.

For more detailed specs on the FRED chassis as specific to these units check out the following link to the chassis spec sheets:

http://www.rvtechlibrary.com/chassis/fliner_specs.htm

Just for additional reference, the Tiffin literature shows the GVWR and UVW weights in their brochures. But they are never accurate. The true test is to read the placard in the bedroom closet. The sales literature shows that the Ford and FRED in the 34TGA each have around 4200 lbs of CCC, so they are pretty equal. The placard in my Brother-in-law's Ford 34TGA shows around 3,500 lbs.

We had a 2003 Suncruiser 33V once that had around 1,900 lbs and we loaded it to the max. So, I'd guess that realistically you'd probably load 2,000 - 2,500 lbs into a 34TGA, which would let you add the extra 1,000 lbs to your towing capacity. It really still isn't enough. In that case I'd take a look at the Bay. Or, better yet, go with a Phaeton and get so much CCC and pass through basement storage that you'll never run out.

[Gary the Wombat]

You are right on the money about the towing concern, and for that reason I don't think I'll pursue this model any more.

The FRED powered 34TGA has a UVW 0f 19,200, while the Workhorse/8.1 model has a UVW of 17,720 lbs. This is also why it has only a 2,000 lb difference between the GVRW and GCRW. I also noticed in the brochure specs that both the Ford and Workhorse chassis models list a Trailer Hitch Capacity of 5,000 lbs, but the FRED version doesn't even give that information.

It seems that Tiffin has really determined that the FRED version is unsuitable for towing a toad.

[John95683]

I guess I don't quite understand all these numbers. Are you guys saying that an Allegro 34 TGA with the FRED or Workhorse can't tow a Jeep Wrangler? It seems that there are many owners out there thaqt are doing just that (or similar weight toads). What am I missing here?

[Gary the Wombat]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jOHN95683:
I guess I don't quite understand all these numbers. Are you guys saying that an Allegro 34 TGA with the FRED or Workhorse can't tow a Jeep Wrangler? It seems that there are many owners out there thaqt are doing just that (or similar weight toads). What am I missing here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you loaded the MH to its GVRW (24,000 lbs) then you would only have 2,000 lbs to play with for towing--far less than the weight of a Wrangler. To tow a Wrangler and stay within the GCWR (maximum combined weight), you would have to give up some weight somewhere else, like 1,000 lbs of softdrink and Cheetos. That's a lot of Cheetos!

That's for the FRED. The Workhorse/8.1 version however, has a 4,000 lb difference between the GVWR and GCWR--enough to safely tow a Wrangler, even with all the Cheetos and softdrink you can carry.

[Funtogo]

Gary:
I agree with cruzer.The Allegro FRED is a good motor home.It just needs the 26,000# gvrw chassis with the 340hp eng. and 2100 series transmission.
Johnny

[Cruzer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jOHN95683:
I guess I don't quite understand all these numbers. Are you guys saying that an Allegro 34 TGA with the FRED or Workhorse can't tow a Jeep Wrangler? It seems that there are many owners out there thaqt are doing just that (or similar weight toads). What am I missing here? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 300 HP FRED has plenty of guts for towing. It's just that the Allison 2200 transmission is too light duty and no rated for it. Now, if they used the heavier Allison 2100 from the Allegro Bay, there'd be no issues.

I suppose if you ignore the transmission rating you'd probably be happy with the way it tows. But, when you wind up in an Allison service center later on with a busted tranny and the tech says "Sorry, no warranty" you might not be too happy.

[John95683]

I am surprised that Tiffin would produce a coach, especially with a diesel engine that costs $13K more than the Workhorse and $17K more than the Ford, with an inadequate transmission. I would suspect that many buyers bought the FRED because they thought it would tow a vehicle more easily than the gassers, a thought that I'm sure was not discouraged by salesmen.

Is there an issue with the Allison transmission in the Workhorse?

What does Bob Tiffin say?

[Cruzer]

I don't know but I plan on asking him when I see him next month.

[Spoonman]

Interesting posts,
We are going to the Springfield Ma show next week to see if there were any Tiffen Freds on display. Guess I have to look a little closer.
The info on this forum is invaluable for sure.