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Old 10-04-2017, 08:32 AM   #1
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Allegro Bus vs. Phaeton

Buying 1st coach soon. Budget set at 120k. Wanna work and travel 6 months of year. I do Flooring and can find work. Looking at a 09 42ft Phaeton tag axle Spartan chassis and a 360H Cummins and don’t wanna go 40ft so looking like Allegro is out of budget. What am I loosing in chassis comparison? I wanna tow a enclosed trailer with vehicle and some tools as well.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:02 PM   #2
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Your post is a little confusing.

The diesel product line is RED/Phaeton/Bus, generally the higher up the product line the more it will cost.

Typically everything up to 40' are non-tag axles, anything gtr 40 will include a tag axle. Tag axles give more carrying weight, which is good for heavy trailers, and rides/drives better. However, you give up basement storage space, and have the extra cost of tires and tolls.

RED's and Phaeton's are rear radiator, Bus are side radiator.

Quote:
and don’t wanna go 40ft so looking like Allegro is out of budget
Don't know what you mean by this. If you don't want to go to a 40, does that mean you want to be under 40 feet in a non-tag, or over 40 feet into a tag?

Being 'out of the budget' means what...?
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Old 10-04-2017, 04:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiawah View Post
Your post is a little confusing.

The diesel product line is RED/Phaeton/Bus, generally the higher up the product line the more it will cost.

Typically everything up to 40' are non-tag axles, anything gtr 40 will include a tag axle. Tag axles give more carrying weight, which is good for heavy trailers, and rides/drives better. However, you give up basement storage space, and have the extra cost of tires and tolls.

RED's and Phaeton's are rear radiator, Bus are side radiator.

Don't know what you mean by this. If you don't want to go to a 40, does that mean you want to be under 40 feet in a non-tag, or over 40 feet into a tag?

Being 'out of the budget' means what...?


Buying a used unit and to maximize my purchase price I feel puts in at a Phaeton unit that gives me over 40ft and a tag which is the ultimate goal as to what you said with trailer and drive etc. plus the added room of floor plan size.
If there was a better reason to the chassis or whatever is the difference of Phaeton to Allegra Bus in functionality then that’s when I “might” consider settling for a 40’ Allegra Bus. So my question is without a salesman “selling” I am wondering what is if any difference in the 2 levels of the coach understanding the small quality in wether cabinets or decor but more in mechanics and chassis etc.
I hope this is more clear.
Thanks for your responses.
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Old 10-04-2017, 05:11 PM   #4
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Bus has a bigger, more powerful motor than the Phaeton
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:11 AM   #5
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We started with an Allegro RED 33AA and moved up to a Phaeton 40AH last year. We got a 10,000 pound hitch instead of a 5,000 pound, and much larger coach. Now we're looking at a 40' Bus which would have a side radiator, larger engine, Independent Front Suspension and other stuff like painted slide walls. You also get a powerglide chassis instead of a freightliner, but I'm not sure that's a positive. I want a side radiator so I can see the motor when I open the hood and the IFS for a better ride. The ride on our Phaeton is pretty brutal on rough roads.
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Old 10-06-2017, 11:05 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by V3600 View Post
Bus has a bigger, more powerful motor than the Phaeton
For the years that the OP is looking at, yes... but don't forget that between the 2013 and 2014 model years, the Phaetons started getting the same ISLs that are in the Buses, because Cummins discontinued the ISC. Granted the ISL in the 40 foot and under Phaetons are 380 HP, they're still the same ISL and can be programmed up to 450 HP if one wants to blow through what I have heard is around a $3k mod (unconfirmed by me), but you will still have the 1-stage VGT exhaust brake while the Bus gets the 2-stage engine brake. Also, the over 40 foot Phaeton already get the 450 HP Cummins like the Bus, I just don't know what year that started. I only bring this up in case someone is looking and trying to compare newer model years.
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Old 10-06-2017, 05:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeWat View Post
For the years that the OP is looking at, yes... but don't forget that between the 2013 and 2014 model years, the Phaetons started getting the same ISLs that are in the Buses, because Cummins discontinued the ISC. Granted the ISL in the 40 foot and under Phaetons are 380 HP, they're still the same ISL and can be programmed up to 450 HP if one wants to blow through what I have heard is around a $3k mod (unconfirmed by me), but you will still have the 1-stage VGT exhaust brake while the Bus gets the 2-stage engine brake. Also, the over 40 foot Phaeton already get the 450 HP Cummins like the Bus, I just don't know what year that started. I only bring this up in case someone is looking and trying to compare newer model years.


In my original post I describe the unit 09 with 360hp motor. I tried looking up specs today for a quick moment trying to see the weight of unit and what might be payload capacity etc. I wanna tow either a 20ft stacker trailer or a 22-24ft car trailer as well. I am new to all this and read a lot on units to a degree but until I have it and have “hands on” experience I just don’t want to make an error in what I need vs what I get after spending money to buy what I hope is 5-7yrs use.
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:10 PM   #8
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Don't own a Tiffen product but looking at it from a far--the "Bus" is a higher-end coach than the Phaeton. Obvious differences include less powerful engines, smaller tires, rear vs side radiator, fewer options for upgrades on the inside. Having said that, features vary across brands and within models of the same brand.
Accordingly, I think the real issues are floorplans you like and style of camping you want to do. IMHO, as you move from 30ft lengths toward the 40fts, you tend to transition away from the flexibility to camp in more remote sites in the state forests, and toward more of a cross-country cruiser. The distinction gets larger as you move to tag axle models. It is amazing to me how little you actually "need" in an RV if all you really want to do is go "camping." However. if your dream is to cruise from coast to coast, pull a trailer, and be comfortable while doing it, bigger is better. Again, coaches in the 30 to 40ft range get modestly less flexible for getting out in the back country, as length increases. Generally speaking, tag axles represent a whole other class of travel with more power, more weight, more length, and more complex machinery to maintain.
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:50 PM   #9
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Although we are new to RV’ing, we first purchased a 34’ coach on a Freightliner chassis and 380Cummins diesel pusher. Quickly traded it for a 38’ Allegro Bus on Superglide chassis and 460 Cummins sidevent. We are towing a Grand Cherokee and the stability of driving the Superglide was impressive along with the additional power of the engine. The side vent is supposed to help maximize the engine power by positive air flow. Very happy with the Allegro bus performance. Best wishes!
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:13 AM   #10
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I think it's actually called a "Powerglide" chassis.
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Old 10-07-2017, 11:26 AM   #11
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Given our budget, I think you have lots of flexibility.

We've never owned or driven anything else but the Prevost. I pull a 26' enclosed trailer weighing between 10K and 12K from time to time. I like having the tag to help support the tongue weight.

At your price point, take a look at early to mid-1990s's Prevosts. Many will be 40', some 45'. Some with have the older 8V92 Detroit Diesel (2 cycle), many will have the Series 60 (4 cycle). The IFS (which Prevost switched to sometime in the mid-90s) will give you a tighter turning circle than the straight front axle. Your budget will allow you some cash to replace components that might have timed out (tires, batteries, etc.) and make sure all the regular maintenance items are current.
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Old 10-16-2017, 12:26 PM   #12
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Currently looking at a 08 Holiday Rambler Scepter 42’ today and like some of the options but still need to make a trip and look at the 09 Tiffin Phaeton 42QBH so we can compare. This adventure sure takes time and effort that’s for sure LOL.
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Old 11-12-2017, 07:39 PM   #13
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Well.....
Bought an 08 Tiffin Allegro Bus 42’ unit private sale in Dallas. Flew down 2 wks ago for inspection and negotiations. Pick it up next week. Excited!!!
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Old 11-12-2017, 09:18 PM   #14
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For towing heavy trailer as described I would want tag and bigger engine - thus a bus. So go older bus vs newer Phaeton for similar money.

I would not want to tow such a trailer with my non-tag ISC engine Phaeton.
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