Battery draining, everything off

[WelshDesigns]

Total newbie here. Both to the forum which looks great BTW, and to RV’ing. We are going full time RV’ing in the Summer, and we just purchased our rig. It’s a new 2018 Tiffin Allegro Red, 40ft. Because we can’t use it yet, it’s in storage. Ever since we got it, after coming back from a weeks storage, the battery is dead. First time, so dead the steps didn’t come out even. Through research here, I’ve tried turning off the inside “battery switch”, then next time, turned off the outside red batter disconnect switch, and then the next time turned off the battery switches, and I thought turned off the inverterer using the tiny little push switch outside on the inverter box. This weekend upon coming back, it’s still like most times, the battery ended up at 11.7. So this time I have totally taken off the negative from the battery, hoping it finally stops the drain. Why can’t the switches Tiffin provided be used themselves? Am I doing something wrong? I don’t need months of storage, just a week at at time at least. Then when I charge each time, I run the generator about 30-45 minutes to get to 12.8 volts, is that sounding about right? Thanks for any info, really appreciate it!

[Ljwt330]

Originally Posted by WelshDesigns

Total newbie here. Both to the forum which looks great BTW, and to RV’ing. We are going full time RV’ing in the Summer, and we just purchased our rig. It’s a new 2018 Tiffin Allegro Red, 40ft. Because we can’t use it yet, it’s in storage. Ever since we got it, after coming back from a weeks storage, the battery is dead. First time, so dead the steps didn’t come out even. Through research here, I’ve tried turning off the inside “battery switch”, then next time, turned off the outside red batter disconnect switch, and then the next time turned off the battery switches, and I thought turned off the inverterer using the tiny little push switch outside on the inverter box. This weekend upon coming back, it’s still like most times, the battery ended up at 11.7. So this time I have totally taken off the negative from the battery, hoping it finally stops the drain. Why can’t the switches Tiffin provided be used themselves? Am I doing something wrong? I don’t need months of storage, just a week at at time at least. Then when I charge each time, I run the generator about 30-45 minutes to get to 12.8 volts, is that sounding about right? Thanks for any info, really appreciate it!

From what I've read and experienced, there is always a parasitic drain on the chassis batteries regardless if the battery switch has been turned OFF. There is power to the ECM and likely some other devices in particular coaches. Disconnecting the battery itself, will stop any draining, but understand a disconnected battery will still lose charge over time, but much slower.


When recharging using the generator, your time of recharging may not be enough to fully charge and stabilize the batteries. Your battery monitor probably has 3 indications--"bulk", "accept", and "float". If so, wait until the "float" light comes on before stopping the charge sequence.

[WelshDesigns]

Sorry, I forgot go clarify, this is for the coach batteries, not the chassis they are doing fine. Thanks for the tip on charging, I am stopping while it’s still bulk charging, thinking the voltage readout is enough.

[Pigman1]

I agree with Ljwt. You are not getting even close to full charge on the batteries with that short a charge run. Just about all manufacturers have phantom load issues. Even if they design it right there's always some clown tapping the batteries directly instead of putting the link where it should be. Rather than running the generator I'd put the batteries on a 110 V charger to get them to full charge. If that's not possible I'd pull the batteries and take them to a battery shop where they can do a load check on them and get them fully charged. Disconnecting the battery terminal is the best way to cut all drain. Running the bank down and only partially recharging them is a great way to cut into battery longevity in the future

[kewag]

Since it is new, a call to Tiffin would be a good idea. Have the VIN number handy. They have help me several times.

[Lt Dan]

I'm not sure if the 2018 REDs inverters are Spyder controlled or if it still has the Magnum remote panel. Either way you need to turn off the inverter either on the Spyder panel or the Magnum. The inverter is connected directly to the battery bank and will draw power even with the main battery disconnect is off. I found with our RED that the inverter would pull the batteries down in a couple of days, but if it was turned off at the control panel they would stay up for weeks. Pulling the negative cable is a definite way to stop the draw. If you still have the Magnum panel, there are two buttons Chg and Inv. The Inv button turns the inverter on and off.

[WelshDesigns]

Originally Posted by Lt Dan

I'm not sure if the 2018 REDs inverters are Spyder controlled or if it still has the Magnum remote panel. Either way you need to turn off the inverter either on the Spyder panel or the Magnum. The inverter is connected directly to the battery bank and will draw power even with the main battery disconnect is off. I found with our RED that the inverter would pull the batteries down in a couple of days, but if it was turned off at the control panel they would stay up for weeks. Pulling the negative cable is a definite way to stop the draw. If you still have the Magnum panel, there are two buttons Chg and Inv. The Inv button turns the inverter on and off.

Yeah, I tried to turn off the inverter this last couple times, and still ran down the batteries to 11.7. Now maybe becasue they just never got charged enough, but that feels less likely than something else was draining. We have the spider, but i’m Using the control panel over the drivers seat, which is believe is the magnum. I turned off the invert from the outside one test, and came back inside to the magnum controls and it allowed me to turn on the inverter again there, I checked as the refrigerator came on. Is it supposed to be enough in a “normal” situation for a weeks storage, to just turn off the battery switch outside, and turn off the inverter using the Magnum in the coach over the driver? If so, I’ll make sure the batteries are totally charged and see if that works. (Assuming unhooking the batteries works this time around).

[vsheetz]

Tiffin battery disconnects...

There are still power draws on the house batteries even with the inverter off and battery disconnects enabled - because the inverter and alarms are directly connected to the house batteries. An exception to this is some newer coaches that have an additional inverter disconnect switch.

If the coach does not have a inverter dusconnect switch. For extended storage pull a battery cable or many folks install a disconnect switch right at the batteries.

This is also a good place for a couple hundred watts of solar on the roof. Provides battery maintenance when in storage or left for service and the shop doesn't keep the coach plugged in.

The chassis batteries disconnect is a total disconnect. No further action is needed.

[WelshDesigns]

Just wanted to close this out with what actually fixed this. After all the investigations, testing, and whatnot, we called the place we purchased it from, and they said contact Tiffin, which we did. Tiffin asked us to take it to a battery location to have them checked out for replacement. The battery place was going to test them, but after I told them all I did already, they just agreed to give me all 4 battery replacements.

Here is the explanation I gave them that seemed to convince them the battery’s were not “maintained” properly. We bought the RV at the very end of the year in Seattle. The RV was on the lot for at least 6 months, if not longer. We are sure the battery’s were almost never plugged into shore power, and we all know most people don’t run generators long enough to get full charges. (Almost 4 hrs in many cases). So we think just sitting on the lot, batteries being used one in a while to show customers, and run slides out, but almost never charged correctly, ruined them.

Anyway, Tiffin, indirectly through the battery company gave use a new set.

[Lt Dan]

That's great that you got the battery situation worked out. You do need to make sure the inverter is turned off and all battery disconnects are turned off when you store it. You can even go to the extent of removing the battery cable to make sure there is no parasitic draw.

[HPbari]

Purchased this '09 36QSP in November, brought it home and plugged it in to (30A) shore power. We finally took it out for a weekend of dry camping last weekend. I was clueless about the bulk/absorbtion/float, of which I now have an understanding. I had the Xantrex set to AGS, which it did, but memory says I manually started it when the "low batt" alarm sounded. I guess that should have been my 1st clue. It appears I ran on my house batteries from Thurs afternoon thru about Sunday 4am, when I again heard the low voltage alarm, manually started the generator, and let it run for about 1.5 hrs. Assuming I was good, I shut it down. I then had nothing. Inverter was off (low voltage setting exceeded). Batteries were seriously depleted; about 7V. With the help of a friend's generator I brought slides in, my system back to life (a little) and drove home. The last 2 nights I "camped" in my back yard, unplugged. Sys Control Panel showed a fairly constant draw of 180W at the inverter (about 20A) I used one LP furnace, and even when it cycled the draw didn't reflect an increase. This time I made sure the charger was ENABLED AND ON. This morning when my batteries got down to 11.7V I manually ran the gen for 1.5 hrs. Panel read FLOAT, 13.5V. Shut it down and experienced the same thing again. House batteries around 7V, inverter auto-shut off. Questions: what "TYPE" of generator should the Xantrex setting show? (1 thru 8) "START DCV", is this a minimum trigger-on voltage? What am I missing?

[gpounder]

Originally Posted by HPbari

Purchased this '09 36QSP in November, brought it home and plugged it in to (30A) shore power. We finally took it out for a weekend of dry camping last weekend. I was clueless about the bulk/absorbtion/float, of which I now have an understanding. I had the Xantrex set to AGS, which it did, but memory says I manually started it when the "low batt" alarm sounded. I guess that should have been my 1st clue. It appears I ran on my house batteries from Thurs afternoon thru about Sunday 4am, when I again heard the low voltage alarm, manually started the generator, and let it run for about 1.5 hrs. Assuming I was good, I shut it down. I then had nothing. Inverter was off (low voltage setting exceeded). Batteries were seriously depleted; about 7V. With the help of a friend's generator I brought slides in, my system back to life (a little) and drove home. The last 2 nights I "camped" in my back yard, unplugged. Sys Control Panel showed a fairly constant draw of 180W at the inverter (about 20A) I used one LP furnace, and even when it cycled the draw didn't reflect an increase. This time I made sure the charger was ENABLED AND ON. This morning when my batteries got down to 11.7V I manually ran the gen for 1.5 hrs. Panel read FLOAT, 13.5V. Shut it down and experienced the same thing again. House batteries around 7V, inverter auto-shut off. Questions: what "TYPE" of generator should the Xantrex setting show? (1 thru 8) "START DCV", is this a minimum trigger-on voltage? What am I missing?

Urgent -
Your on the edge of permanently killing your batteries or your too late.

You must immediately change your batteries and that may take 8 hours to do. Please plug it in now and make sure it show charging. The battery voltage may be so low it will not even start to charge, Jump the battery to your car if you need to raise the voltage to get the charger to start.

Here is the problem. The charger may have thought the batteries were fully charged, that happens when the batteries are injured and artificially shows a high voltage. You may have to force the charger into equalize mode and set it for at least 4 hours. Look that up to see if it is a feature.

Go to the auto parts store and buy a specific gravity tester. That is the the little float in a tube. After equalizing, check the battery and hopefully they show in the green, if not equalize again and check it every hour. Keep doing this until they are good. If after say 10 hours of charging they do not come back they are probably toast.

[Reacher]

You can check your owners manual and it will lay out the procedure for storage. On mine there are two rotary switches (house + chassis) and an inverter disconnect in the battery compartment. For extended storage you could use a couple solar trickle chargers to help maintain them.