RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Tiffin Owner's Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-14-2017, 10:14 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
Beware of factory in-dash satnav option

Anyone know if any of the open source GPS maps work with the Kenwood DNX571TR?

The short version is this: If you get a new Tiffin with satnav, make the dealer update the maps in it before you accept the coach. Make it their problem, not yours.

I've got a 2017 Phaeton with the factory installed satnav. After 12 months it started popping up a notice saying maps are more than 12 months out of date.

Turns out that in reality, the maps are actually more than 2 years out of date, and neither Kenwood nor Garmin offers any map updates for the unit.

They don't simply tell you that they don't offer map updates, you just have to waste time following the steps on the garmin site and realize it's never going to display a link or button for updating the maps. That's when their site isn't busy throwing up helpful messages like "We’re Sorry, This Page is Temporarily Unavailable" and ""We’re sorry.Something went wrong, and our site is temporarily unavailable. We’re already working to get things back on course." (BTW those messages appear every day of the week, it's not temporary problems, their website is simply broken in multiple places)

Oh yeah, and if you're a Linux user, you're screwed anyway because their browser plugin requires IE and only IE. If you try to use Edge, it comes up and says "Chrome no longer supports this plugin" That's the sort of website quality we're talking, they can't even get user agent right long after Edge became the default Windows browser.

They also don't have a Linux version of "Garmin Express" which is required. All it does is read an .xml file and check a version and unit id against Garmin's site. Does that sound like a clear case for a REST microservice and a bit of javascript with maybe a JWT thrown in, that'll run on any platform? Does to me. It obviously doesn't give Garmin enough opportunity to jam glossy marketing videos down you metered internet connection, so Windows and IE it is. Hey ho.

Oh yeah, and be aware that if map updates were available, they don't mention it anywhere before the very very last step (and only if you're looking at the steps in the manual, not the ones on the web) but you have to buy a microSD card to dedicate to your Kenwood. After you update the maps it will always and forever read them from the microSD card, not the internal memory of the unit. The instructions read like all you need to do is temporarily borrow a microSD card just to move the data from your computer to the Kenwood.

One would expect the instructions to start off with "1. You need a microSD card of between (x)GB and (y)GB capacity formatted as FAT32 file system for storing your maps" but hey, the consumer's time idoesn't cost Kenwood a dime, let them guess and fiddle until they get it right.

You can buy a new DNX573S for less than $550, Tiffin is getting around $900 additional for old and effectively unsupported hardware. Not a good value, to say the least. Personally I call it deceptive practice, to sell old hardware knowing that the consumer expects to, but won't be able to, get map updates for it.
__________________

dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 10-14-2017, 10:21 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 35,969
My Kenwood is an older model, don't remember the model right off hand but it was the OEM model in '09.
Tried to get map updates and found out that Garman won't allow updates due to technology updates to the GPS system that can't be implemented in the Kenwood system.
__________________

__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 Jeep JKU
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:29 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Dale & Mark Bruss's Avatar


 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,644
No open source GPS maps as it costs to make them.

Because of updates, we use devices that are geared to updates than OEM built-in systems seldom are. Garmin for the toad. ALK CoPilot in Android tablets for the RV.
__________________
Dale & Mark Bruss
13 Years Full-Timing Now with a 2016 Bounder 33C
40' Travel Supreme winter residence
Lots of RV Information at www.dmbruss.com
Dale & Mark Bruss is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:37 AM   #4
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 99
On my 2013 Phaeton I downloaded the software upgrade first. Then had to wait 9 months for a map update to be available to download to a microSD card. If you have large fingers, make sure you have a pair of tweezers to handle the microSD card. Yes, the map update was at a price. It works great. The guy on the Garmin/Kentwood phone help line was great.
Trans. Cajun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 10:45 AM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 61
I just updated my maps on my DNX571TR in July. It cost me $76. I had an old 32GB micro card from an old phone. I used IE, as it is available on Win 10. It went very smoothly following the instructions. It is important to note that you 32GB is the max size for an SD card on this unit. A 16GB SD card will work fine.
__________________
________________________________________
2016 Renegade Verona VBH
2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee/2009 Honda CRV
tgdameron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 11:17 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Las Cruces, NM
Posts: 3,550
You just gave the reasons why buying an in-dash unit is not the best idea. Good old, sit on the dash RV/trucker model will serve you better. With lifetime maps and traffic and a lower price than the dash units, you are getting up to date navigation and saving money.
__________________
Roger & Mary
2017 Winnebago Navion 24V
2014 Tiffin Phaeton 36GH (Sold)
luvlabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 11:25 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
Mr_D's Avatar
 
Country Coach Owners Club
Winnebago Owners Club
Solo Rvers Club
iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 35,969
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvlabs View Post
You just gave the reasons why buying an in-dash unit is not the best idea. Good old, sit on the dash RV/trucker model will serve you better. With lifetime maps and traffic and a lower price than the dash units, you are getting up to date navigation and saving money.
That's what I did although I still use the Kenwood unit. Last month I went to CA due to a death. The Kenwood was giving me directions that didn't match the new roadway I was on.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA, SKP
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '14 Jeep JKU
Mr_D is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 12:03 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Defiant530's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Inglis, Florida for the next 6 mos
Posts: 103
We opted not to get the Navigation when we ordered our 2018 Phaeton 40 IH2 wks ago.
I already have a Rand Mcnally trucker GPS W/ lifetime update which has never let us down and I am very comfortable using it
__________________
2018 Tiffin Phaeton 40 IH
2013 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited
Defiant530 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 12:44 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
simonsrf's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 219
We found our JVC unit difficult to negotiate. Approximately $100 later, our Garmin works easily...and it updates!
__________________
2012 Tiffin Phaeton 36 GH
2013 GMC Sierra SLT 4x4 (flat towed)
Honda Pioneer 500 (UTV)
simonsrf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 01:32 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale & Mark Bruss View Post
No open source GPS maps as it costs to make them.

Because of updates, we use devices that are geared to updates than OEM built-in systems seldom are. Garmin for the toad. ALK CoPilot in Android tablets for the RV.
Not true. I use open source maps in my Garmin 60CSx.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_Map_On_Garmin

It's just a freakin' minefield of "Oh this should work" or "Hold your tongue like this while you alternate pressing the 'W' and the '#' keys and then hold your sacrificial chicken out just like this. Wait did we forget to mention it has to be a full moon if you've got version 1.2 but a quarter moon if you've got version 2.6 or later?" whenever you're dealing with open source projects.

I was just wondering if anyone had successful installed them on this particular model.
dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 02:07 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by tgdameron View Post
I just updated my maps on my DNX571TR in July. It cost me $76. I had an old 32GB micro card from an old phone. I used IE, as it is available on Win 10. It went very smoothly following the instructions. It is important to note that you 32GB is the max size for an SD card on this unit. A 16GB SD card will work fine.
What version of the maps did you update to? From everything I've read and everything I've tried, the 2015 version of the maps is the latest. You may have paid to update to the 2015 maps.

BTW a 128GB card works fine in it as well, you just have to make sure it's formatted FAT32. Obviously the whole card won't be usable but I was able to retrieve the unit info on one I scrounged out of my dash cam.

It's not just a matter of IE not being available, in theory you can run a VM on Linux and run Windows there to get IE, the point is that the customer shouldn't have to jump through the hoops. It's possible to write browser agnostic applications, Garmin just chooses to write browser specific applications simply because it gives them "in your face" advertising opportunities and another chance to harvest user info.

That's historically been the case with Garmin, I've been using their stuff for ages. They always write buggy software with obtuse random/non-standard user interfaces. It's just a fact o' life when doing business with them.

If it weren't for things like gpsbabel and OpenStreeMaps I'd have sold all my Garmin hardware ages ago. Lots of competitors now, and none of them have anywhere near the stupid indecipherable licensing processes (plural) that Garmin does.

I had a Nuvi registered to me that got stolen out of my car. They knew the serial number and they had location information on it every time it connected to update maps or software. They refused to disable it or to provide the location information to law enforcement so that I could recover it. So I asked if I could at least transfer the street map license from it to my 60CSx since I had just recently forked out $170 for new maps.

Nope. The crook got to keep my GPS and the new maps I'd paid for.

That's when I switched to using OpenStreetMaps.
dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 02:08 PM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defiant530 View Post
We opted not to get the Navigation when we ordered our 2018 Phaeton 40 IH2 wks ago.
I already have a Rand Mcnally trucker GPS W/ lifetime update which has never let us down and I am very comfortable using it
What model is your Rand McNally?

Do they do their own maps or is it just a re-brandied Garmin like the Kenwood?

Thanks for the info!
dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 02:14 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_D View Post
That's what I did although I still use the Kenwood unit. Last month I went to CA due to a death. The Kenwood was giving me directions that didn't match the new roadway I was on.
I've gotten bit a few times. My favorite one is on Rt 138 in Oregon. At one point it sends you down narrow 25mph side roads because a couple of years ago they rebuilt a big curve on the highway. I assume it was a detour while the work was in progress.

Would be nice to have updated maps...
dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2017, 03:52 PM   #14
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 175
BTW, this is an example of how technically brilliant Garmin is as a tech company:

It took me 5 or 6 tries to get logged in. Garmin has had at least 4 different customer account formats since I became a customer. I had to figure out which of my 3 saved logins was the one they're currently using.

My old password didn't work anymore because they changed password requirements on the accounts.

The "reset password" link didn't work with any browser combination I tried, FF, Chrome, or IE11. It wasnt' until I happened to try it with Edge on my laptop computer that it finally sent me a confirmation email and I got the password reset.

One could believe it was a fluke, that there was something wrong with my Firefox, Chrome and IE installations or that I'm just a know nothing when it comes to computer... but then comes their form email response to registering my Kenwood:

"You’re going to love your new <%= productName %>!
You’ve made a smart choice with your <%= productName %>, and we’re happy to welcome you to the Garmin family. You’re joining a worldwide community of active, hard-working people who understand how the right technology can make their everyday adventures even better."

Oh yeah, and once I got logged in? Yeah, they lost the registrations for my eTrex Vista, my 60CSx, my Nuvi, US topo maps, and two versions of City Streets or whatever it was called. According to them, the Kenwood is the only Garmin product I own.

As Rick Reynolds says, "Only the truth is funny"
__________________

dphaynes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
dash



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
SatNav IMDSailor RV'ing Humor & Crazy but True Stories 5 07-14-2013 04:09 PM
Is the diesel 'option' still an option? rough road iRV2.com General Discussion 9 03-26-2011 11:05 AM
Beware of winnebago factory service dept. texastimbers2 Winnebago Industries Owner's Forum 20 11-10-2010 09:32 AM
Windstar 7000 non factory tow vs. 8500 factory tow option. Hammond Pop Up, Tent Trailer and Teardrop Topics 1 01-30-2008 06:03 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:04 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.