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Old 02-10-2010, 06:22 PM   #1
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Business is great?

I must assume that the RV business has made a huge rebound or at leaswt in Houston.

We just returned from the Houston RV show and got the rock bottom, lowest can't be beat anywhere in the U.S. price of 20% off MSRP on a 40QTH. We were also told that it will take 6-7 months to get a unit if I don't buy an "in stock" unit.

The dealer is DeMontrond RV, which is the dealer I bought my Bounder from and I promised I would never return due to their total lack of after sale service. They are honest enough to tell you up front...bring it in and we'll look at it in 6 weeks.

Interestedly enough, Fleetwood has dropped them as a dealer so Tiffin is the only motorhome mfg they represent. I wonder when Bob will wise up and drop them.

Any comments?
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Old 02-10-2010, 06:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkhartjim View Post
I must assume that the RV business has made a huge rebound or at leaswt in Houston.

We just returned from the Houston RV show and got the rock bottom, lowest can't be beat anywhere in the U.S. price of 20% off MSRP on a 40QTH. We were also told that it will take 6-7 months to get a unit if I don't buy an "in stock" unit.

The dealer is DeMontrond RV, which is the dealer I bought my Bounder from and I promised I would never return due to their total lack of after sale service. They are honest enough to tell you up front...bring it in and we'll look at it in 6 weeks.

Interestedly enough, Fleetwood has dropped them as a dealer so Tiffin is the only motorhome mfg they represent. I wonder when Bob will wise up and drop them.

Any comments?
yeah, stay away from them. our only dealings with them were distasteful and, like you, we still wonder how they stay in business.
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:12 PM   #3
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It's easy to tell when an RV Salesman is lying, his lips move!

That being said, there are several honest people in the business, however, there are still a lot of sleaze-bags as well!
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Old 02-10-2010, 07:45 PM   #4
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Just be advised that new Tiffins are getting hard to come by. Suppliers of the parts that go into them are running way behind and they can't increase production by a great amount. LaMesa in Quartzsite had their last Bus on the lot 2 hours before it sold just before the show. No others on the horizon there. I'm not sure how Tucson, Yuma or Mesa is supplied. Perhaps someone else can comment?

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Old 02-11-2010, 09:31 AM   #5
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Yes, I'm not familiar with that dealer so I won't go there.

But, John is correct regarding availability. They are in the toughest position they ever were right now.

The Allegro Bus has outsold their expectations. Tiffin tried to get enough chassis on order to beat the EPA-2010 engine changeover so that the switch could be made when the 2011s come out in May. They did that with the Phaeton and Allegro RED but not with the Bus.

For the first time in a number of years, the Phaeton is not the #1 selling diesel pusher. In 2009 the Allegro Bus (#2 on last year's list) was the number one selling pusher. This meant that they ran out of the EPA-2007 spec chassis early. By mid-December any new orders for the Allegro Bus with the Powerglide chassis will have to be placed with the new EPA-2010 engines. That's a $17,500 upcharge (list price), although the 425 HP ISL bumps up to 450 HP and gains another 50 ft-lbs of torque, which is the rated maximum for the Allison 3000 transmission. The Spartan and Freightliner chassis for the Bus just recently ran out. The new Powerglide is being tested and certified right now. Once it's certified it will be mid-May until the new chassis will be delivered to dealers in a new coach.

Tiffin was cranking out 14 units per day in the glory days. They were down to 3 during the worst of this recent slump but are now ramping up production trying to meet demand. The current rate is 8 per day and will be increasing soon. however, their biggest issue is in getting components from their suppliers. The economy forced everyone to lay off workforce and cut back on inventory. This trickle down effect is making it very difficult to build motorhomes when you can't get the parts you need to build them.

Tiffin's time-of-order to time-of-delivery was typically 8 weeks. Now it's more like 12. In order to minimize the backlog, Tiffin is giving preference to customer-sold orders. That means that a dealer's stock orders are getting pushed back. As of right now fully one third of all Tiffin dealers do not have a 2010 coach on the lot. They are in deman so they sell fast and resupply is very slow.

The new EPA-2010 emissions couldn't have come at a worse time. Combined with the economy, RV dealers are faced with having not enough inventory to meet demands. They do need to make a certain amount of profit dollars to remain in business and if they can't get the volume they'll be discounting less to their customers to try to make it up. I think that the days of the deep discounts probably won't be back for a while.
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Old 02-11-2010, 09:24 PM   #6
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At the Houston RV show did you happen to see Vendors offering the LED light replacements. Was thinking about going Friday ..
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:09 AM   #7
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At the Houston RV show did you happen to see Vendors offering the LED light replacements.
I saw one vendor that "may" have had LED lights but if they did, it was a very small selection. There were very few vendors like that at the show, mostly campgrounds, cutco knives, a lady that repairs day/night shades, Texas Parks & Wildlife, a fold up boat, etc. There was only one aisle with maybe 20-30 vendors.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:21 AM   #8
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Quote:
It's easy to tell when an RV Salesman is lying, his lips move!

That being said, there are several honest people in the business, however, there are still a lot of sleaze-bags as well!
Sleaze-bag is a derogatory term. The PC term is "Sales Weasel".
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Old 02-12-2010, 09:45 AM   #9
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Not sure how great - they list several NEW '08's (not Tiffins) on there website. I have heard bad things about their after sales service as well
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Old 02-14-2010, 08:26 PM   #10
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CRUZE: On one hand it sounds great, but on the other not a well run business.
Not referring to coach quality.
Or I could have read your post wrong.

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Old 02-14-2010, 08:55 PM   #11
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CRUZE: On one hand it sounds great, but on the other not a well run business.
Not referring to coach quality.
Or I could have read your post wrong.

Kerry
Tiffin, or that dealer?

The dealer I know nothing about. Tiffin on the other hand has the greatest RVDA ratings (by dealers) of any manufacturer, has increased their market share while others have been losing, and has the top two selling diesel pushers, is fourth in 2009 sales amongst all class A manufacturers (all who are much larger), and has the highest repeat sales of anyone. The only reason that they ran short of chassis is because the actual sales far outstripped their projections and with the double whammy of a down economy plus the new EPA regs suppliers just can't keep up. If that's your definition of a "not well run business" then I bet many of the other manufacturers wish they were "not run" that way.
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Old 02-15-2010, 10:16 AM   #12
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Tiffin, or that dealer?

If that's your definition of a "not well run business" then I bet many of the other manufacturers wish they were "not run" that way.

I bet some of those other manufactures would love to have Tiffin's problem. Maybe Bob could make a deal on some of those chassis that are setting on other's storage lots rusting away due to lack of orders.
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Old 02-15-2010, 11:32 AM   #13
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Whoa big fellow: So there are legions standing outside Bob's door wanting to buy, and there are no coaches to sell. Sounds like "not well run" to me.
Blaming others, EPA (which has been known for a while), no chassis's , etc.,.
Just exactly whose fault is it? Or is it nobodys?

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Old 02-15-2010, 11:59 AM   #14
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When you get more sales than expected you run out of stock. Any business goes through that whenever actual sales exceed the projections. Tiffin has always done well with projections in the past and based accordingly for this year. Now, when they need more stuff it just goes up the chain of supply. They need to make more coaches but can't get enough chassis. they build their own Powerglide for the Bus but can't get axles fast enough because the axle manufacturer has downsized and laid of workers and reduced inventory. Now he wants to bring his guys back and build axles to fill the new orders but he can't get the brake to hang on the axles because the air brake manufacturer did the same thing he did. The air brake guy is waiting for the rubber diaphragm manufacturer to ramp up, etc, etc.

Now, if Tiffin would only make their coaches less desireable they cut their sales demand drastically and be like many of the other RV manufacturers they wouldn't have these problems because they'd have stuff laying around the lot. I guess then they would be considered a "well run business."

As for the EPA - yes, everyone new it was coming but no one was in a hurry to get the new engines into their chassis "today" because most everyone had enough of the old stuff in the pipeline to last until the 2011 model year rollout. Tiffin just didn't fit into that category this time around.
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