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Old 12-13-2017, 07:04 AM   #15
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Considering Purcahse of 31MA - PDI

Originally Posted by DWRichard View Post
Discounts will vary based on the dealer. There are four major dealers who offer comparable (27%-29%) discounts of of MSRP, which is usually the maximum you can expect off of a new Tiffin. Anybody tells you they got 45% off a new Tiifin had their price inflated before buying.

The dealers are Kings Campers in WI, Marlin Ingram in AL, Sherman in MS and Davis in TN. As to a 3 day PDI, I have never heard of that and you may end up not buying any RV with that expectation, but you can ask. That being said, the above will certainly allow you plenty of time for their PDI to be worth your time, and will certainly offer you overnight stay if things arenít covered in one day.
I truly appreciate your detailed feedback. The price range I was referring to is industry wide, not specific to Tiffin. From what I have learned, their range is 35%-30%, depending on the education (informed level, not schooling) of the consumer, time of year, and floorplan needs of the selling dealer. The RV industry is apparently not ready for an individual like me that holds people accountable for their actions and words. From what I have seen and experienced, the PDI is truly a purchaser's one and only time to protect oneself against the worse unprofessional industry in all my years on this planet.

I am a professional OEM in another industry with similar purpose, but I do not dare say related. I knew what to look for previously on my first 2 PDIs if the units were assembled (not constructed) professionally. That was not a valid assumption or foundation. Now that I know that is not the case industry wide, I will have to investigate in detail everything that the manufacturer should do as normal assembly process checks. That will require three days at a minimum for me to accomplish. I will do it on site at the selling dealer location myself without the seller dealer's assistance because of my capabilities, gained knowledge, and to not create overhead. I will create a punch list of observed problems and provide them that at the end to remedy in reasonable time or the sale is OFF. There is no other option. I will not spend $ on a "luxury" item and be bullied into accepting an unfinished product that I now know will live in the repair shop or worse, not to mention add to grief and consume what should be free time.

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Old 12-13-2017, 07:31 AM   #16
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I applaud your enthusiasm, but I suspect you will never buy a motor home.

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Old 12-13-2017, 07:51 AM   #17
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First, this is not directed at anyone specifically on this forum, just my observations over the last 24 months.

If anyone enjoys living at dealerships getting items repaired that should never be there in the first place, so be it. I was hoping Tiffin might be different, but after helpful posts, it appears maybe not as much as I had hoped. I looked into Newmar too, but they seem just as bad as the rest I have observed to be problems. On a professional grading scale, most in the industry get an "F". Without owning a Tiffin yet, my observations put it somewhere around "C". Time will tell if it goes up or down from there. Only a handful of third party companies deserve "A" or "B" in my opinion, but none of the manufacturers so far.

Again, the point of a PDI is just that. Start off with a known respectable starting point and then trips to fix failures will be from a result of normal wear and tear or unknown failures instead of unprofessional manufacturing - frankly dereliction of duty and contract fraud.

Forums are difficult to manage. With so many different personalities (like politics - not going there), it is hard to stay on topic and help or do as mom said, "if you don't have anything nice to say, be quiet". Granted, I have serious reservations about the RV manufacturing industry and voice my reservations, but it is not directed at anyone on the forum, far from it. It is the industry that is suspect and has been confirmed in the little time I have interactions with it. I am looking for assistance in order to alleviate some of the deficiencies I have observed first hand. For those that are trying to help, a sincere thank you, to others that are watching, you are welcome, maybe you have gained knowledge to prevent problems for you, to those that forums are what to do each day, I won't go there, unless you are in the first group, thank you again. I desire/hope to be in that first group soon.
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:06 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by aleg33 View Post
What are you referring to regarding the interior?
Hi Aleg,
The interior issues are mostly minor, and I haven't resolved all of them yet. They include:
- Oven is installed askew.
- A kitchen valence and a headboard behind the driver have worked out of their connections to the wall causing a larger hole where the toggle or anchor had been. These rattle while driving.
- The front driver's window screws keep coming loose allowing it to separate and let wind and road noise in. I would like for the window frame to have a better connection than lightweight sheet metal screws to hold it together.
- The windshield shades do not go down all the way without getting stuck on one side requiring two people and some TLC. Probably just an alignment issue.
- Some of the manual shades on the various side windows have issues rolling down smoothly.
- Bathroom: some trim is loose and not connected to the walls and corners and the door is difficult to keep properly aligned.
- Sofa upholstery delimitation (This is apparently a limited known issue and Tiffin is working with us on the problem - I'll report back after it is resolved)

I want to stress that none of these are major headaches and the coach has and is serving us well over many rough miles. I would happily buy another Tiffin DP and will recommend the same to others. We also got great warrantee service from International on the one engine issue we had (fuel pump).
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Old 12-13-2017, 10:25 AM   #19
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aleg33 I agree with you. The RV industry quality is horrible. I love to GoRving and have enjoyed both Tiffins and Winnebagos. I always buy a used unit since I can repair 99% of the problems with RVs. My attitude is let someone else buy new and get all the bugs repaired not to mention the huge depreciation. They then get fed up with all the repairs and sell or trade in on another new RV with problems. Any other industry with this quality problem would go out of business. Of course this is my opinion. I do like my Tiffin more then the Winnebago. All the things I have had to repair have been vendor supplied items.
Good luck on your search and I hope you find that perfect coach. There has to be one out there somewhere.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:17 AM   #20
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Thank you to the latest flywithcoop & dmanpearl for serious welcomed feedback. A friend of mine has the same game plan. He only purchases 1-2 year old Class "C"s. That says it ALL about the industry. If one is a newbie that does not know anyone or the industry, that is who they are selling to - or should I say really wanting to take advantage of their ignorance.

I can deal with the "minor" & some "serious" interior & system problems, but when it is the structure or a significant number of defective components or assembly upon pick up, that is 100% NOT acceptable. That is why I will personally do a 3 day PDI, not that I want to, but that is what it will require time-wise to truly perform a complete PDI to find faulty manufacturing on items that one should never have to even consider testing. Simple example - I once read that I need to fill the black tank (not used yet) until it back fills into the toilet & likewise the grey tank until it fills the shower and then check for leaks. Seriously, that should be done at the factory as NORMAL QC assembly check, but of course wish on. So, I will. If everything like this is done, I dare anyone to do it in less than 3 days, and I now know what to check. If the selling dealer is not willing, then he is afraid - well, so am I now. This is not a case of a bad apple ruining the lot, its the entire lot. If a good apple is there, you just got lucky.

Salesman at (name withheld) took me for a fool and said a 16% discount was fabulous and I should grab it because they are the Greatest RV place there is - LOL.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:28 AM   #21
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Iím sorry that me recent post didnít qualify as serious feedback, but while you have your needs, so do dealers. You cannot impose your will on a private company, no matter how much you wish to. Just as you do not have to do business with someone who wonít accede to your (quite unreasonable) demand for a 3 day PDI, the dealer doesnít have to do business with you, either.

If you find someone who is willing to do as you want before money changes hands, more power to you.

But Iíll be surprised if you ever end up owning a motor home in your future with that kind of attitude.
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Old 12-13-2017, 11:52 AM   #22
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I applaud your enthusiasm, but I suspect you will never buy a motor home.
I already did. It wasn't a tiffin, but I am now considering getting a Tiffin - lots of ifs though. It is from those lessons learned that I am now suspect of all RV Dealers & Manufacturers and why I was looking for assistance here. These forums have been the best source of info so far.

I'm not going to get in a " " war with posts, but succumbing to RV dealers is what has allowed this unprofessional industry/environment to flourish. Most of us are in totally unrelated industries. Just ask yourself if your business behaved like this how long would you stay in business? Would you treat prospects /customers like this expecting them to spend significant portion of their disposable income? I choose not to. If you do, fine. I'm not telling anyone to do anything. Individual choice, but don't tell me I am being unreasonable when I try to ensure my investment.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:38 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by aleg33 View Post
I already did. It wasn't a tiffin, but I am now considering getting a Tiffin. It is from those lessons learned that I am now suspect of all RV Dealers & Manufacturers and why I was looking for assistance here. These forums have been the best source of info so far.
With all due respect...You are looking for RV "NIRVANA"

Unfortunately RV nirvana is not a realistic expectation.

You could spend 1.5Million on a MH the results would be the same.

I am not a pessimist ...just a realist ....this realist has 35 years of RVing under his belt.

I don't feel your being unreasonable (as u gave accused others of )..but I also don't think your projected course of action is going to change anything at all within the RV industry, though it will cause considerable stomach acid among some.

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Old 12-13-2017, 12:43 PM   #24
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I think the OP will need to order a new Prevost, Newell or Foretravel to be satisfied!
Even my parents Foretravel had things that needed fixing especially after the caravan through Mexico.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:12 PM   #25
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Never mind, I will leave and make those that have not helped and just criticized the OP do their thing to others, not me. If I wanted this type of behavior I can go to most RV Dealerships.
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Old 12-13-2017, 01:37 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by aleg33 View Post
Never mind, I will leave and make those that have not helped and just criticized the OP do their thing to others, not me. If I wanted this type of behavior I can go to most RV Dealerships.
From the beginning, everyone has been pretty much saying the same thing... you're better off playing a lottery than expecting the "perfect" motorhome off the assembly line. You asked for the help, but have chosen to criticize those who are telling it like it is. Oh well, I seem to remember a saying about a door knob on a swinging door... I'm out .

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