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Old 01-07-2020, 04:35 PM   #1
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GCWR for W22 - Can't find anywhere

I have a Tiffin Allegro Bay on W22 chassis. Been looking for a toad and went back to review the paperwork and the GCWR is nowhere to be found - looks like a classic case of pass the buck!

Per the Workhorse manual (pg. 2-8) "… the Gross Combination Weight Rating of the towing vehicle as identified by the final stage manufacturer." That would be Tiffin in my opinion.

Per the Tiffin manual (pg. 1-7) "Gross Combination Weight Rating (GCWR) - This is the value specified by the chassis manufacturer …. That would be Workhorse in my opinion.

So Workhorse says Tiffin does it and Tiffin says Workhorse does it!!

It would seem that Workhorse would have a better idea of that number but...

The only place I found any addressing of the GCWR was in a sales brochure that lists it as 26,000# but that's about as official as my opinion, especially if stopped by DOT.

My Certification/Tire label on the side panel in the drivers area only shows GVWR of 22,000#

Anybody ever seen the GCWR anywhere official??
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Old 01-08-2020, 03:07 PM   #2
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Have you CALLED either Tiffin and/or Workhorse to inquire using your specific model with VIN?


That is where I would start........


22K GVWR
26K GCVWR per brochure
Doesn't leave much in tow capacity (4K)
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:09 PM   #3
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Tiffin usually has a sticker on the entry door jamb, hinge side. Also a sheet glued or taped to the bedroom closet/wardrobe inside wall.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:25 PM   #4
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Yep - neither has the GCWR - go figure?
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:45 PM   #5
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Not on this specific issue but see my post on Coach Weighing Issues dated 11/19/2010 - I called Tiffin 4 times back in 2010 and never received a return phone call about the FACT that my sticker in the back of my coach is off by nearly 1,400 pounds - documented on multiple certified scales. All I asked them for was the birth weight of my RV and they told me it was in the archives and would take a day or two to get it for me. That was nine years ago - guess Alabama counts days differently.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:53 PM   #6
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Old Biscuit is right I have the brochure for my 2005 AB

GCVWR is 26000lbs

Attatched is the brochure, I believe you can go on the Tiffin WS and download it.

My AB fully loaded with what I need full water, fuel etc.... is just below 21000lbs
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 2005allegroBaySpecs.pdf (376.2 KB, 4 views)
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7365 View Post
Old Biscuit is right I have the brochure for my 2005 AB

GCVWR is 26000lbs

Attatched is the brochure, I believe you can go on the Tiffin WS and download it.

My AB fully loaded with what I need full water, fuel etc.... is just below 21000lbs
Yes, as noted in my original post I saw the 26,000 in the sales brochure. I'm just wondering if a DOT inspector would buy off on me showing him a sales brochure. After all, you know if a salesman is lying to you by the fact that his lips are moving :-)

Interesting - my AB with full fuel, full water and full LP and just me (185#) and NO CARGO - EMPTY bays - not even a pot or pan is 20,796 # - verified on 3 different certified scales. Mine does have nearly every option per the brochure - insulated windows/heat pumps yet the sticker is within a few pounds of the weight listed in the brochure for the standard one from what I remember - haven't looked at it lately so going from memory.

I still think it's one of the better made coaches, it's just FAT and my paperwork doesn't reflect that.
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ7365 View Post
Old Biscuit is right I have the brochure for my 2005 AB

GCVWR is 26000lbs

Attatched is the brochure, I believe you can go on the Tiffin WS and download it.
Yep just looked it up - my sticker shows UVW as 18,323 and a stock one (no options) is 18,320. I'm pretty sure those double pane windows, power awning, heat pumps and more probably weigh more than 3 pounds.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Yep - neither has the GCWR - go figure?
There should be a silver colored "incomplete vehicle" sticker provided to Tiffin by WCC attached to the side wall near the driver's seat.

IF you have a W-22 chassis, the GVWR is 22,000 pounds and the GCVWR is 26,000 pounds. If yours is actually a W-20, the GVWR is 20,700 pounds but the GCVWR remains 26,000 regardless.
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Old 01-09-2020, 11:26 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgray View Post
There should be a silver colored "incomplete vehicle" sticker provided to Tiffin by WCC attached to the side wall near the driver's seat.

IF you have a W-22 chassis, the GVWR is 22,000 pounds and the GCVWR is 26,000 pounds. If yours is actually a W-20, the GVWR is 20,700 pounds but the GCVWR remains 26,000 regardless.
No, actually that is the Final-Stage manufacturer's sticker.

The IVD (Incomplete Vehicle Document) that you refer to is on the chassis when Workhorse ships it. That sticker is replaced by the Final-Stage sticker when the vehicle is completed. Those are all governed by Title 49 CFR Sec. 567 & 568. Interestingly enough the federal law only requires both the IVD and the FSD to list the GVWR and GAWR. No requirement for a combined vehicle weight rating.

Mine lists Workhorse as the incomplete vehicle mfg. and Tiffin as the final stage mfg. and shows the GVWR - 22,000 LB and GAWR Front 8,000 and GAWR Rear 14,500 along with tire size and pressure. Not a word about GCVWR. Makes me wonder where the 26,000 comes from (other than sales brochure)
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Old 01-11-2020, 09:06 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by deputydog View Post
.......

Mine lists Workhorse as the incomplete vehicle mfg. and Tiffin as the final stage mfg. and shows the GVWR - 22,000 LB and GAWR Front 8,000 and GAWR Rear 14,500 along with tire size and pressure. Not a word about GCVWR. Makes me wonder where the 26,000 comes from (other than sales brochure)
Beginning on page 135 of the 2009 Chassis Guide (not a sales brochure) published by WCC, there is a "by model year" chart listing the following info:
GVWR
GAWR-Front
GAWR-Rear
GCWR
Wheel track
Wheel bases offered
Series name-(w-22, etc.)


Since the chassis builder decides which components are used to assemble the chassis, including load-rated things such as tranny, axles, and brakes, does it not seem logical that the chassis builder would establish both the GV and the GC ratings? I understand your concerns as posted when you started this thread, and blame corporate lawyers for the apparent finger pointing about "who" is responsible for the final determination of ratings, but WCC has included THEIR ratings in more than just sales brochures. I don't have access to a copy of the WCC Owner's Manual that should be included with every new coach, but I'd be amazed if the GVWR / GCWR isn't in it as well.
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Old 01-12-2020, 07:47 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edgray View Post
Beginning on page 135 of the 2009 Chassis Guide (not a sales brochure) published by WCC, there is a "by model year" chart listing the following info:
GVWR
GAWR-Front
GAWR-Rear
GCWR
Wheel track
Wheel bases offered
Series name-(w-22, etc.)


Since the chassis builder decides which components are used to assemble the chassis, including load-rated things such as tranny, axles, and brakes, does it not seem logical that the chassis builder would establish both the GV and the GC ratings? I understand your concerns as posted when you started this thread, and blame corporate lawyers for the apparent finger pointing about "who" is responsible for the final determination of ratings, but WCC has included THEIR ratings in more than just sales brochures. I don't have access to a copy of the WCC Owner's Manual that should be included with every new coach, but I'd be amazed if the GVWR / GCWR isn't in it as well.
I would agree that the chassis builder SHOULD establish the GCWR but they don't at least on the 2004. As noted in my first post Per the Workhorse manual (pg. 2-8)

"4. The total towed weight when added to the operating weight of the towing vehicle cannot exceed the Gross Combination Weight Rating of the towing vehicle as identified by the final stage manufacturer."

That's a direct quote from the manual. I don't have a copy of the chassis manual (looked it up on the Workhorse site in the past but never saved it and now they don't have it anymore). It may be in that manual but since it isn't part of what the buyer receives it doesn't help much.

I'm gonna go with the 26,000# since it seems to be the best available info. Just hope I don't ever have to prove it.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:31 AM   #13
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I would agree that the chassis builder SHOULD establish the GCWR but they don't at least on the 2004. As noted in my first post Per the Workhorse manual (pg. 2-8)

"4. The total towed weight when added to the operating weight of the towing vehicle cannot exceed the Gross Combination Weight Rating of the towing vehicle as identified by the final stage manufacturer."

That's a direct quote from the manual. I don't have a copy of the chassis manual (looked it up on the Workhorse site in the past but never saved it and now they don't have it anymore). It may be in that manual but since it isn't part of what the buyer receives it doesn't help much.

I'm gonna go with the 26,000# since it seems to be the best available info. Just hope I don't ever have to prove it.
I'm not sure why you seem unwilling to accept the help I've been offering, but regardless, since you were at one time trying to gain access to the WCC published Chassis Guide, here is a link that I think will allow you to download the 2006 version. Workhorse Technical Info



It also contains a chart I referenced above (in the 2009 CG) and I hope you will agree it applies to your chassis model year. The specifications chart showing the GV and GC ratings begins on page 11 of this edition.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:19 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by edgray View Post
I'm not sure why you seem unwilling to accept the help I've been offering, but regardless, since you were at one time trying to gain access to the WCC published Chassis Guide, here is a link that I think will allow you to download the 2006 version. Workhorse Technical Info
It also contains a chart I referenced above (in the 2009 CG) and I hope you will agree it applies to your chassis model year. The specifications chart showing the GV and GC ratings begins on page 11 of this edition.
Ed: First and foremost, my apologies if you felt that I wasn't willing to accept your help. Tone in posts and emails is hard to detect and I'm sorry if you felt negatively about my posts - it was certainly not my intention - I have simply been trained in my career of aviation and engineering/surveying over 40 years including many expert testimonies that you have to be able to back up things with documents.

Why Workhorse did not simply put this info in the 2004 owners manual (since the owner is obviously the one who needs the info.) is beyond me. Why you should have to go to the extent that I have to get simple information is silly and dangerous since lots of folks would just give up and not worry about it.

Now for the BEST PART. I owe you a BIG "Thank You"! for providing the link. As you noted on pages 11 and 12 it lists the GVWR, Front GAWR, Rear GAWR, AND GCWR for all 1999 thru 2006 Workhorse Chassis.

Having to find data in a 2006 document for a 2004 vehicle makes no sense to me (wonder what folks were suppose to do between 2004 and 2006) BUT here it is, IN PRINT FROM THE MFG. We can hang our hats on that!

Thanks again for the link!
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