Community Forums

cucotx · 05-05-2014, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itgeekgal

What I don't see in these calculations is the approx 28% dealer reduction off of MSRP you get when buying new, effectively wiping out the 1st 2 year's depreciation. If/when we buy a 2nd coach it will likely be new for all the reasons listed in this thread.

The 28% off MSRP is not part of the table. That is, the table is based on what you pay for the coach.

So, for example, if a Cornerstone has an MSRP for $600K, but you buy it for 28% off MSRP, you pay about $430K. That's what you pay to drive it off the lot. Then, after the first year, you lose another 18% from the $430K. After one year that coach, according to the table, should be about $350K. But, all of this is theoretical of course. There is no way a new 2014 Cornerstone that has been sitting on the lot for a year is going to sell for $350K. I would think it would sell higher than what the table says. But, after a few years, the numbers in the table start to be closer to the truth.

George Lewis · 05-07-2014, 11:22 AM

With the poor quality control, poor workmanship, cheapened interiors and lots of overall problems, we will keep our old junker. It runs like a hose and no problems.

kember · 05-07-2014, 11:33 AM

Absolutely agree. Hopeful this attitude by dealers and manufacturers will change. Doubtfull it will be overnight. The lack of care and quality control in our new Forest River is appalling. Trim secured with duct tape? Really. Thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pa Uon

We have a 2007 40 ft Tiffin Phaeton, it is our third motor home and 1st used one. We bought it used 3 years ago and love the product. We just concluded an 8 month search for a new unit. We looked at every brand that was in the MSRP range between $200,000 to $500,000. Went to many dealers in different states (some as many as 3 visits to one dealer to look at floor plans).

As of last week, we changed our minds and will keep what we have. Everyone was way overpriced for what they delivered. All had problems. All had quality issues. And EVERY dealer (except Beaver Coach Sales in Bend-great place) acted like they were doing us a favor ! The arrogance of these people shocked us ! A half a million bucks! Really ? For that ? No, Really ?

This industry is showing some serious cracks and it feels like this "house of cards" is beginning to crumble. Due to poor quality and price hikes (after hike after hike!) dozens and dozens of people we know are saying "were not gonna take it any more". We are the customer and the manufacturers are not listening. The ridiculously high new coach prices are also allowing dealers to keep the used ones high as well.

Last week (again, after an 8 month search) we had decided on the Tiffin Allegro Bus 45LP. We had planned on going to see it built. Then we sat down and really looked at the quality and what new owners were saying about their new MH's. I really really felt like we were getting ripped off. We changed our mind and this week we head for a minor "RV make-over" (furniture and blinds). We are buying a nice house in Washington and getting a makeover for far less than what a new inferior MH would cost. Just personal preference until this industry changes.

We won't be arguing with anyone, just 2 peoples decision to not get ripped off by an industry that has some issues right now.

2wiresdave · 05-15-2014, 06:48 PM

Being that I am in the market currently, used prices seem to be honestly about what the coaches were paid for 1-2 years ago...am I missing something?

Take any Tiffin gas model and then look it up using NADA and run all the numbers...I am searching for that mythical 28% off of the already 28% reduction plus the additional 18% second year loss.

Example: 2012 Allegro 34tga - 126,630 MSRP = $91,173 retail after 28% off.

Drive it off the lot = $65,644 in 2013.

Now it's halfway through 2014 so maybe take 9% since we are already almost halfway through right?

Now we are at $59,736.

The reality is way different on what I am seeing on the used market. If I could find a 2 year old 34tga for 60K I would buy it on the spot. Reality is they are going for 25 to 30% more than that.

Reality seems to be that this coach was bought for about 91K 2 years ago and would sell for about 88k to 106k today according to nada. I recently talked to a dealer and they were offering a used 2012 at 95K and it probably could have been had for around 85K or so I figured.

That's only a 7-8% depreciation from new in 2 years. (assuming private party sale vs trading in).

What am I missing?

Davdeb1 · 05-15-2014, 07:56 PM

I will start off my post by admitting I could not afford to buy a $300,000.00 coach. I do not have the resources to pay cash, and financing the amount I could not pay cash for at my age seems like a very poor decision.
About 2 1/2 years ago we bought a 40 ft 2000 Endeavour. It was about 48k. I spent around 11k on all maintenance, new tires, a remodel of the inside, batteries, meter, inverter, etc. I now have $59k in it. If I tried to sell it right now, and I was very fortunate, I would be Lucky to get 40k. That is 33% in less than 3 years.
My point being, depreciation or loss of investment happens no matter what year you buy. We did extensive remodel on inside, and got it exactly the way we want it. I could not find a new that would look like this inside. We love the way it drives, the dependability, and the comfort it provides us living in it.
Buying a new one would mean I would have to spend thousands again inside to make it as comfortable and not look like an RV inside. We go to the shows, and it seems like all the interiors look like Los Vegas bordellos, and the exterior paint schemes all look like a 1970s Paisley shirt. Even the Newells have gone with the crazy Paisley exteriors. Yes, I'm sure many of you disagree with my taste, and since these motorhomes seem to sell,
My opinion is just my opinion.
Its your money, you have to do what makes you feel happy. You can't worry about depreciation or perceived quality. If you like it just buy it. New, used, it doesn't matter.

StevenNSteph · 05-15-2014, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2wiresdave

Being that I am in the market currently, used prices seem to be honestly about what the coaches were paid for 1-2 years ago...am I missing something?

Take any Tiffin gas model and then look it up using NADA and run all the numbers...I am searching for that mythical 28% off of the already 28% reduction plus the additional 18% second year loss.

Example: 2012 Allegro 34tga - 126,630 MSRP = $91,173 retail after 28% off.

. . .

What am I missing?

The MSRP you quote is for a base model but hardly anybody buys a base model. An example would be my gas coach, it had only a moderate amount of "extras" added to it and that jumped the price almost $27,000. I have seen some "extras" on gas models top out over $35,000. So let's just say that they had an extra $20K added to the coach, that means the actually price (before discounts) would be $147,000.

Depreciation tables for gassers are the following

2012 Value 147,000 - 25% = 110,250
2013 Value 110,250 - 18% = 90,450
2014 Value 90,450 - 8% = 83,218

And you said that it could be had for around $ 85K. Seems about right to me.

Hopes this helps.

2wiresdave · 05-16-2014, 06:47 AM

[/QUOTE]

Depreciation tables for gassers are the following

2012 Value 147,000 - 25% = 110,250
2013 Value 110,250 - 18% = 90,450
2014 Value 90,450 - 8% = 83,218

And you said that it could be had for around $ 85K. Seems about right to me.

Hopes this helps.[/QUOTE]

What's interesting and what I guess I was trying to point out, is that the $110,250 is what the new coach would have been sold for...I have quotes for new gas coaches of up to 28% off retail...which means that the drive it off the lot depreciation doesn't happen if that is how used coaches are priced - these quotes of course include all the options added.

If I paid 110k and used it for three winters I would take a hit obviously, but it really is a little overstated some times since the first years 25% depreciation was actually never paid for....

dajudge · 05-16-2014, 07:04 AM

I agree with you all the way. I was able to buy a 2007 Phaeton 36QSH with low miles for about half the cost of a new one. We love it more than a new one because we saved big bucksm and don't have to make monthly payments. Beside thatm if I need service, Tiffin service in Red Bay is great. I recently had some work done, due to a manufacting defect and the work was done at no cost to me. How many manufacturers do you know does free work on a 7 tear old coach?

Dunner · 05-19-2014, 12:39 AM

I went to an RV show/sale and couldn't believe what they had to offer. Loose screws and handle falling off. If they wanted to sell something, go over it with fine fine tooth comb and make it pretty. Floor plans that were more then inconvenient.

Pa Uon · 05-20-2014, 03:57 PM

Getting fridge installed now !!! All other items (shads, valences, furniture, light fixtures, etc...) all on order !

Pa Uon · 06-19-2014, 01:31 PM

Just left several places in Eugene and Junction City Oregon that completed all our upgrades ! Very very happy with our new "stuff" and our decision to stay with what we had. It feels like a new coach, but without the price tag. We went to Oregon Motorcoach Center (Great Place !), Carrier and sons (Great Place !), David Cabinet (good place), and Countryside Interiors (unorganized, not such a great place).

Larry1946 · 06-26-2014, 08:47 PM

Is it a good deal or not to buy a new 2014 at $3000 less than an identical 2015? The question of depreciation is murky on this issue.

docj · 06-27-2014, 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1946

Is it a good deal or not to buy a new 2014 at $3000 less than an identical 2015? The question of depreciation is murky on this issue.

My experience with similar circumstances with automobiles has been that the dealer are rarely willing to discount the "left over" item enough to account for it being a year older. Think about the situation one year from now; the left over will be 2 years old, the new one will be one. You can calculate the difference in value easily and usually it's a lot more than they're willing to discount it.

George Lewis · 06-28-2014, 08:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry1946

Is it a good deal or not to buy a new 2014 at $3000 less than an identical 2015? The question of depreciation is murky on this issue.

Larry, it depends on what price level you speak of. If it is a $65,000 Class C it may be a good deal, if a $350,000 DP, not so good. What unit are you looking at? Dealers receive rebates on unsold year old units from the manufacture and may pass on some of it to the buyer....more details are needed to help you.