Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE OWNER'S CORNER FORUMS > Tiffin Motorhomes Owners Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 04-20-2014, 10:17 AM   #1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 149
No new coach for us

We have a 2007 40 ft Tiffin Phaeton, it is our third motor home and 1st used one. We bought it used 3 years ago and love the product. We just concluded an 8 month search for a new unit. We looked at every brand that was in the MSRP range between $200,000 to $500,000. Went to many dealers in different states (some as many as 3 visits to one dealer to look at floor plans).

As of last week, we changed our minds and will keep what we have. Everyone was way overpriced for what they delivered. All had problems. All had quality issues. And EVERY dealer (except Beaver Coach Sales in Bend-great place) acted like they were doing us a favor ! The arrogance of these people shocked us ! A half a million bucks! Really ? For that ? No, Really ?

This industry is showing some serious cracks and it feels like this "house of cards" is beginning to crumble. Due to poor quality and price hikes (after hike after hike!) dozens and dozens of people we know are saying "were not gonna take it any more". We are the customer and the manufacturers are not listening. The ridiculously high new coach prices are also allowing dealers to keep the used ones high as well.

Last week (again, after an 8 month search) we had decided on the Tiffin Allegro Bus 45LP. We had planned on going to see it built. Then we sat down and really looked at the quality and what new owners were saying about their new MH's. I really really felt like we were getting ripped off. We changed our mind and this week we head for a minor "RV make-over" (furniture and blinds). We are buying a nice house in Washington and getting a makeover for far less than what a new inferior MH would cost. Just personal preference until this industry changes.

We won't be arguing with anyone, just 2 peoples decision to not get ripped off by an industry that has some issues right now.
__________________

__________________
Pa Uon is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 04-20-2014, 10:31 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
Old Radios's Avatar
 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Upstate (the other) New York
Posts: 580
I agree. We looked for six months and almost dropped $70K on a new C. We found a use one in like new condition with 17,000 miles for under 30K. That's over a $40,000 difference. The new one would have been a comprise on the floor plan we wanted but could not find anything new in exactly what we were looking for. We lucked out.

Searching I could not believe some of the poorly designed floor plans we saw like a bed that was unusable unless the slide was extended, poor quality construction, and rigs that were at their weight limit if you took extra keys with you. I don't need or want a freakin' TV outside and my guess is either do my neighbors.

For us it was no slides, no motorized awning, no motorized steps, no problems. Getting very hard to find in a new unit.
__________________

__________________
2006 Fleetwood Tioga 26Q
Toads: '15 Ford Focus, '10 Harley Softail Custom and '15 Harley Softail Deluxe
Upstate (the other) New York
Old Radios is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 11:28 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
itgeekgal's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 304
The more we look at new coaches the more we love the one we have...
__________________
2009 Tiffin Phaeton 42QRH
https://youtu.be/WIVI0GQThq8
itgeekgal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 12:29 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
Tony Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Peru heading for Brasilia, Brazil
Posts: 2,056
Too many of these sort of stories

Quote:
We are on our 26th month of ownership and the coach has been in the shop more than 225 days. There are some things Winnebago has given up on fixing at all, many things have taken more than a year and 8+ attempts.
and

Quote:
We have owned our 2013 42 qd for six months we have over 40 warranty items (the coach has been in the dealers shop for over 2months total) only 3 item have been addressed the score being one item fixed the other two attempts to repair faild.
to even consider buying a new vehicle.

(and there are hundreds of similar stories throughout RV forums AND they include every make of MH too.

The really sad thing is that every time these sort of stories are told, there will be a band of poor-QC-apologists who will tutt-tutt the OP and say you shouldn't complain because RVs are very complex machines and just stick with it and eventually it will all turn out OK.
__________________
Tony Lee - International Grey Nomad. Picasa Album - Travel Map
RVs. USA - Airstream Cutter; in Australia - MC8 40' DIY Coach conversion & OKA 4x4 MH; in Germany - Hobby Class C; in S America - F350 with 2500 10.6 Bigfoot camper
Tony Lee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 12:54 PM   #5
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Lake Havasu City, AZ & Plover, WI
Posts: 1,623
I guess we are the exception. We thought our trouble free 03 Phaeton was all we wanted. Then we saw an '11 Phaeton with four slides. After a year with it, we looked at a 43' Bus. It had the tag axle for better stability (thought my 03 was just fine till then), aqua heat for quieter heating and endless hot water, IFS for much better handling and a 450 hp engine with more torque. Best of all though is that we have a dealer who does a thorough pre-delivery check and can handle anything that needs it. Now a year later, we are happy campers and glad we bought our 43'QGP. A few minor issues were handled quickly and we are looking forward to the next trip.
__________________
Crasher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 03:03 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Pigman1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,884
Sounds like a smart consumer who did an exhaustive search and could find neither a rig or a dealership who could come close to meeting his standards. And it sounds like his standards were far from outrageous.

I don't disagree in the least. We took 3 years to get the coach we wanted specially built, and dealt with our dealer twice, once when we made the deal and once when we picked up the coach. Due to Tiffin's new offerings and lack of flexibility, it's very doubtful we will ever own another of their coaches. Their company, their choices. My money, my choice.

If more consumers would be like the OP, we'd have a vastly better made product at a much fairer price. But unfortunately that's not the way the vast numbers of buyers spend their money. Their choice too, but definitely not mine.
__________________
Pigman
2013 Tiffin Allegro Bus 43QGP
2011 Chevy Silverado 1500 Toad
Pigman1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2014, 07:34 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 120
It's not just the RV industry. New aircraft, boats,houses, cars, and most any other product are less dependable than earlier models just like many of today's managers and workers are less responsible. Have you noticed the huge auto recalls, the massive number of deaths due to boats and fairies sinking that the captain and crew are some of the first to bail? Not only are products lacking in quality but no one wants to accept responsibility anymore. (Mod Edit).
__________________
papaw1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 03:00 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 34
Agree here

We have a 2008 Allegro Bay with the Fred set up- Looked at many pushers of many brands- Too much money and not worth it- Bought mine new, made many upgrades, just put on new tires, and it stay inside- It runs like new and will grow old with it.................
__________________
DannyL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 06:39 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
dezolen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 465
Quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by papaw1 View Post
It's not just the RV industry. New aircraft, boats,houses, cars, and most any other product are less dependable than earlier models just like many of today's managers and workers are less responsible. Have you noticed the huge auto recalls, the massive number of deaths due to boats and fairies sinking that the captain and crew are some of the first to bail? Not only are products lacking in quality but no one wants to accept responsibility anymore. But then again, look at our government.
Come on now. Cars of the 50's to 90's were heavy beasts, required tuneups every 6 months, rusted out well before today's warrantees even expire, interiors fell apart etc. Recalls are so common today because idiots can't tell the difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal because they are too busy texting and talking on their phones or too old to even see 20' ahead of themselves. Perhaps everyone should hang a 10# weight on their key chains so they can blame and sue every auto manufacture that exists. ( too many lawyers looking for $$$$$).
Sure the RV industry needs some offshore competition to realize they can't continue to sell inferior products like the auto industry did till they were shaken up.
__________________
2013 Tiffin Allegro 36LA OPEN ROAD
2012 Honda CRV AWD toad
dezolen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2014, 09:07 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by dezolen View Post
Come on now. Cars of the 50's to 90's were heavy beasts, required tuneups every 6 months, rusted out well before today's warrantees even expire, interiors fell apart etc. Recalls are so common today because idiots can't tell the difference between the brake pedal and the gas pedal because they are too busy texting and talking on their phones or too old to even see 20' ahead of themselves. Perhaps everyone should hang a 10# weight on their key chains so they can blame and sue every auto manufacture that exists. ( too many lawyers looking for $$$$$).
Sure the RV industry needs some offshore competition to realize they can't continue to sell inferior products like the auto industry did till they were shaken up.
dezolen, I actually agree with most of what you said. It really upsets me about all the BS "suspected brake failures" and people hanging all their personal effects on their key chains and can't understand why their ignition goes out - but it's the manufactures fault.
Back in the 1960's through 80's or so, we did have to change the plugs and points about every 10,000 miles or so and set the dwell and timing. The engines did use more oil then and leaks were more common. But there were no surprises, we knew the program and a lot of us could and did the upkeep ourselves and it wasn't that expensive. The bodies rusted out due to being real metal and a lot of us didn't have a garage to keep them in. In those days the ignition switch was comprised of two units. The part you put your key in was the tumbler and it turned the back section that was the actual electrical switch. You could probably hang a 5 pound weight on the key chain in those days without wearing out the switch. But people in those days didn't have all the crap on their key chains as well as crap hanging down from their mirrors like they do today. The dashes weren't padded, no seat belts and you could legally drive down the road drinking a cold beer - at least in Texas. But, those were the good old days and now everyone is touchy - feelly and wants the government to "protect us" and they agree and want to control us and what we purchase.
__________________
papaw1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-26-2014, 01:40 PM   #11
Junior Member
 
mrbhistory's Avatar


 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 19
I spend a great deal of time looking for our coach rv shows dealers etc.

We looked at quality reputation and floor plans. We finally settled on a Tiffin Allegro 36La. We got what we feel was a fair price and thought we were getting a decent product. The Motor home has been in the shop 3 times for a variety of issues starting within a day of owning the coach. Refrigerator was non operational from day one (we purchased the upgraded optional one)Dealer stated it would take 2 weeks to get the replacement- called tiffin and they dropped shipped the unit the next day. Main slide was missing the center cradle for the slide topper and slide topper roller warped, Leak below the shower, dealer could not find leak and called tiffin to decide where to cut in to the floor to repair leak, Windshield washer motor and wipers went out on trip to Florida from Virginia, On the way back from Florida drivers window went down but would not go back up in a pounding rain storm. Dealer has had motorhome for 2 weeks waiting on new window motor and washer pump. Also on the way back from Florida I started hearing a metal banging noise. This was coming from the front grill which was ready to fall out since all but one of the screws and brackets holding it in were missing or stripped in the chassis. I expected to have some issues with a new motorhome but it seems that these are quality and ones that should have been repaired rather quickly. My patience with my dealer is running thin and I am considering selling my unit. I guess I was na´ve in believing the hype associated with Tiffin quality and service.
__________________
mrbhistory is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 06:44 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Ramets's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 2,364
Our coach is now 14yrs. old(Newmar). We've talked about getting something newer many times. We've been to many RV shows, most recently the Tampa show this past winter. We're both of the same mind, the new ones don't have anything ours doesn't, so why trade or sell. We've done some remodeling, and had a custom paint job done through the years and she looks better, and is more liveable now than when new. The best part we don't owe a thing on it. Don't get me wrong if a manufacturer built a coach that fit ALL our needs and didn't cost my first born, I'd swap in a heartbeat. But I also believe the overall quality of ours puts to shame the new ones.
__________________
Ramets is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 07:27 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
docj's Avatar
Official iRV2 Sponsor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,649
As difficult to believe as it may be, I think that part of the problem is that industry pricing for many brands hasn't actually kept up with inflation. Even though inflation has been relatively low for the past decade it still exists. Something that cost $100 in 2000 would cost $137 today.

Our MH (which we did not buy new) had an MSRP of ~$350k in 2000 and was the second-ranking model in the Beaver line at the time. It was a quality product, but it wasn't competing against brands like Newell or the Prevost-conversions. But in today's dollars it would have to be priced at ~$470k to provide the same buying power.

I just looked up the MSRP of a 2014 40' Tiffin Allegro Bus (I used the 40' since it is the same size as ours) and it is ~$400k which means that the Tiffin has a ~20% lower cost than ours on an inflation-adjusted basis. Assuming that markups and profit margins are the same, that means that Tiffin has to be able to get 20% out of the cost in order to be able to deliver the same quality product and make as much money relatively speaking. IMHO that's not going to happen given the low-volume, one-at-a-time nature of the Class A MH market. So, using that reasoning, Tiffin can't produce a Bus that has the same overall quality as my Beaver and market it at that price.

I realize that this is a simplistic argument, and I'm not picking on Tiffin, I'm just using them as an example. But the bottom line is that a quality MH has always been a relatively expensive commodity and the manufacturers know that if they keep quality constant and keep raising prices there will be very few customers out there to buy them. So they compromise on material quality and quality control and this produces the "horror stories" that get posted here occasionally. Since I can't afford to replace my MH with a new one of equal quality, I guess we'll just drive it until it and we stop moving!
__________________
Joel Weiss--WiFiRanger RV Ambassador
RVParkReviews administrator
2000 40' Beaver Patriot Thunder Princeton CAT C-12
docj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2014, 08:07 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Don and Dale's Avatar
 
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pa Uon View Post

As of last week, we changed our minds and will keep what we have. Everyone was way overpriced for what they delivered. All had problems. All had quality issues. And EVERY dealer (except Beaver Coach Sales in Bend-great place) acted like they were doing us a favor ! The arrogance of these people shocked us ! A half a million bucks! Really ? For that ? No, Really ?
I absolutely agree about Beaver Coach in Bend, Oregon. Our search took us from Phoenix, to California, to Oregon (Portland and Central Oregon) and they were BY FAR more professional and customer orientated and focused then almost any other we visited.
Your post is our nightmare re-lived to the letter. We also looked for the same period of time, attended I don't know how many shows, looked at LOTS (and LOTS) of MH's from new to used. One of our fears in buying new (excluding what has been stated by many above) was we were not willing to take the devaluation loss as we drove it off the lot. Further, not being full timers and being just the 2 of us 95% of the time, we didn't need, nor want anything over 30-32 foot. This was (is) going to be our first rodeo and we were (and still are to some degree) scared to death about this venture.
With all that said, we made the commitment and settled on a beautifully kept, used, low mileage (9K) WITH AN EXTENDED WARRANTY, 2013 Thor ACE 29.2 in just the last week.
Excluding a couple 2-3 day "lets get use to it" adventures here locally, we are headed back to Bend to spend time with our kids/grandkids.
__________________

__________________
"In the game of life, I have no need for tickets on the 50-yard line, I brought my shoes, I came to play." Unknown
Don and Dale (2015 Tiffin 32 SA with 5ST, CHF, Safe-T-Plus and EEZRV TPMS) RVM106
Don and Dale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Handicap RV Information & Handicap Coach Conversions & Newmar 2018 Mobility Group "007" Class A Motorhome Discussions 20 09-26-2017 07:06 PM
Coach batteries not charging Lance7 Fleetwood Products Owner's Forum 15 06-26-2014 12:45 AM
No power to coach unless RV is running dvleemin Class A Motorhome Discussions 9 03-27-2014 07:33 PM
Alliance Coach & Source Engineering RonaldNC Monaco Owner's Forum 9 03-23-2014 09:00 PM
Low Power in Front of Coach dmason Monaco Owner's Forum 19 07-05-2013 06:28 PM

» Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:07 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.