Phaeton 40AH vs Bus 40AP

[NLOVNIT]

Researching these 2 coaches, both are same floorplan. Pricing/amenities/options aside., the Phaeton is approx 5" longer than the Bus, yet the engine on the Phaeton is a Cummins ISL 380HP/1050 torque where the Bus is Cummins ISL 450HP/1250 torque. Is the Powerglide chassis on the Bus that much more heavier than the Freightliner chassis on the Phaeton? Trying to wrap my mind around the large discrepancy w/the engine output.

Thanks,
Lori-

[ekim]

I don't know if there's a way to get just the chassis weight difference. The PowerGlide GVWR is higher (38,600 vs 35,320) so I would assume that means a beefier chassis. When fully loaded, the larger engine would be helpful.

I've been doing some research too, I would guess that a similarly equipped Phaeton (all electric) would be 800-1200 lbs lighter than the Bus. I can't say if that difference is the Chassis or just a bunch of small differences that add up.

[FreedomDream]

The Bus also is side radiator, Phaeton is rear radiator. Bus has some additional bells and whistles for those who want bells and whistles.

[skypilot_1]

Bus has IFS and engine compression re-tart brake to name two B & W's.

[luvlabs]

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT

Researching these 2 coaches, both are same floorplan. Pricing/amenities/options aside., ... Trying to wrap my mind around the large discrepancy w/the engine output.

Engine output is easy - all Phaetons (except the tag axle models) use the 380 HP ISL. All Buses use the 450hp version of the ISL. The Bus line even has a 600hp ISX optional on a couple of the 45 ft models.

There are a few other things that make the Bus a bit pricier besides the PowerGlide chassis and independant front suspension.

- Aquahot - Bus std, Phaeton, opt (that's about $6k)
- Paramount Awnings - 1 std on Bus, 2nd opt; Phaeton-n/a
- Valid Air leveling - Bus - opt, Phaeton-n/a

Are you looking to buy either one of these coaches?

[NLOVNIT]

Thanks, I've done my research & understand the output, know about the 600HP upgrade for the Bus & know the amenities/options for each.

I'm wanting to understand why, for the exact same floorplan & within 5" of each other in length, the Phaeton is so much less HP/torque. If I'm tooling around the US pulling a 5k+ toad, which will include mountain driving, I want to be sure the HP will be adequate for the length coach I choose.

I've got 362HP on my 37+ft gasser pulling a 4k Jeep. For a short period, the gas Bounder had a floorplan over 38ft. FW dropped it because the HP wasn't enough for that size coach. 18HP more for the Phaeton that's 4ft longer & has a GVWR heavier than what I have doesn't sound like enough power for what I want. 88HP for the Bus does.

If I'm going to plunk down some serious $$ on my next coach, I want to be happy w/it.

Lori-

[Betr2Trvl]

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT

Thanks, I've done my research & understand the output, know about the 600HP upgrade for the Bus & know the amenities/options for each.

I'm wanting to understand why, for the exact same floorplan & within 5" of each other in length, the Phaeton is so much less HP/torque. If I'm tooling around the US pulling a 5k+ toad, which will include mountain driving, I want to be sure the HP will be adequate for the length coach I choose.

I've got 362HP on my 37+ft gasser pulling a 4k Jeep. For a short period, the gas Bounder had a floorplan over 38ft. FW dropped it because the HP wasn't enough for that size coach. 18HP more for the Phaeton that's 4ft longer & has a GVWR heavier than what I have doesn't sound like enough power for what I want. 88HP for the Bus does.

If I'm going to plunk down some serious $$ on my next coach, I want to be happy w/it.

Lori-

I'm surprised the diesel folks have't chimed in on this as I would expect, but I think you need to be comparing the torque numbers between a gas and diesel, not the HP......... Not that HP is irrelevant, but I think it is the huge increase in torque is what is going to make the noticeable difference betwen gas and diesel from a "pulling" perspective.

Regards

[NLOVNIT]

Thanks. Yes, 200 more torque for the Bus will make the mtn pulling easier. It's sounding like that 40ft Phaeton is under powered for what I'm looking for, performance-wise. It's a shame, because a lot of the extras that make the Bus more expensive than the Phaeton aren't necessarily a must have for me. I could see me happy w/the Phaeton if the HP/torque was more than it is but less than the Bus.

Lori-

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT

Thanks, I've done my research & understand the output, know about the 600HP upgrade for the Bus & know the amenities/options for each.

I'm wanting to understand why, for the exact same floorplan & within 5" of each other in length, the Phaeton is so much less HP/torque. If I'm tooling around the US pulling a 5k+ toad, which will include mountain driving, I want to be sure the HP will be adequate for the length coach I choose.

I've got 362HP on my 37+ft gasser pulling a 4k Jeep. For a short period, the gas Bounder had a floorplan over 38ft. FW dropped it because the HP wasn't enough for that size coach. 18HP more for the Phaeton that's 4ft longer & has a GVWR heavier than what I have doesn't sound like enough power for what I want. 88HP for the Bus does.

If I'm going to plunk down some serious $$ on my next coach, I want to be happy w/it.

Lori-

I'm guessing that the main reason for the HP/torque spread between models, since the base engine is the same, is model differentiation. The engine in the Phaeton may also have an exhaust brake vs a compression brake in the Bus.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07

[NLOVNIT]

Originally Posted by Steve Ownby

... The engine in the Phaeton may also have an exhaust brake vs a compression brake in the Bus.

Ok, I'm gonna sidetrack my thread for just a sec (don't report me ).

The compression brake is more powerful but it's the noisy one because of the cylinder air release. Those are the brakes I see all those "no jake brake" signs posted, right?

Lori-

[Steve Ownby]

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT

Ok, I'm gonna sidetrack my thread for just a sec (don't report me ).



The compression brake is more powerful but it's the noisy one because of the cylinder air release. Those are the brakes I see all those "no jake brake" signs posted, right?



Lori-

The true Jake brake is somewhat more noisy but in a motorhome with a real muffler it's certainly not loud or offensive. Many trucks, particularly older dump trucks, ran without a real muffler and the Jake produced a sharp sound which is not present in a modern engine. I pay zero attention to those signs.


Steve Ownby
Full time since '07

[DeWat]

Originally Posted by NLOVNIT

Thanks, I've done my research & understand the output, know about the 600HP upgrade for the Bus & know the amenities/options for each.

I'm wanting to understand why, for the exact same floorplan & within 5" of each other in length, the Phaeton is so much less HP/torque. If I'm tooling around the US pulling a 5k+ toad, which will include mountain driving, I want to be sure the HP will be adequate for the length coach I choose.

I've got 362HP on my 37+ft gasser pulling a 4k Jeep. For a short period, the gas Bounder had a floorplan over 38ft. FW dropped it because the HP wasn't enough for that size coach. 18HP more for the Phaeton that's 4ft longer & has a GVWR heavier than what I have doesn't sound like enough power for what I want. 88HP for the Bus does.

If I'm going to plunk down some serious $$ on my next coach, I want to be happy w/it.

Lori-

I can't explain the reason for the difference, but I hope that personal experience counts at least a little. I had a 2014 Phaeton 40QBH with the ISL380, and never once felt that it was under powered. Never been to the west coast, but it was fine all up and down the Appalachians as well as the steep I-40 hills in TN, towing included. My current 2015 AB 45LP has the ISL450, but it doesn't feel as powerful as the Phaeton did. I am not going to call the AB's ISL450 under powered, but I never had any on-ramp doubts with the Phaeton. I have had a couple scares with the AB.

[NLOVNIT]

Thank you, Dewey. That does help. Even though your Bus is 5ft longer (& no doubt heavier) than your Phaeton, I would've thought the 450 would've out performed.

I'm thinking the only way I'm really going to know is to test drive both....albeit they'll both not be going loaded for travel nor towing when I'm test driving. I will have to take that into account. I don't have any mtns here but I've got plenty of interstate on ramps to test with.

Lori-

[garykk]

For about $2500 Cummins will bump up the ISL 8.9 if it's the HP you want....it's all done with the computer.