Tiffin Gas Vs. Diesel?

[Crasher]

Originally Posted by DWRichard

And we have no idea what the OP intends to tow, do we?

No we do not, but if he knows the limitations of a gas coach, he is better informed to decide what is right for him. I think gas MHs are great for the person that does not need the capacity of a DP. However, after having both, even without my current need, I will continue to run a Diesel for its comfort and handling. But that's just me.

[Mbe111]

It is interesting to look at the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating of different motorhomes. I have a 2018 Open Road PA, 320 horse/24,000 GVWR. another friend has a 2017 Newmar Ventana, 400 horse/ 44,000 GVWR and another has a 2007 Country Coach, 45,200 GVWR. If you divide the GVWR by the horse power rating the 320 horse gas engine has 75 pounds per horse the 400 horse Ventana has 110 pounds per horse and the 425 horse Country Coach is at 106 pounds per horse. Looking at that you would think the 320 horse gasser would run circles around the diesels; but it doesn't work that way, the higher broad torque range of the diesels pull the load whereas the high RPM horsepower of the gas engine has half the torque of the diesels and maintains its power by downshifting and to stay in the powerband. So far I am happy with my gas, front engine 34 foot Tiffin Open Road PA. Maybe someday I would have the urge to go diesel, right now I like the extra $60,000 in my pocket versus the money that I would have spent on any of the Diesel Pushers.

[62Morgan]

Don't forget the annual cost of maintenance for a DP is $2K and the tires replacement cost more than the gasser. Insurance rates are up. DIY'er service and troubleshooting is more complex and requiring professional services in-lieu-of owner-enabled work. Diesel is a more complicated care than mere gasoline. Additives, filters, Algae formation, etc.

[smd1x1]

I have a Tiffin 32SA and I love it. the wife does not like the ride rough and loud. We test drove a 37AP bus. We ordered the bus hope to get it 2nd week of December. The difference is night and day.

[JT-RV]

Sorry if this idea is repetitive (I haven't read all the posts even though this subject is very interesting), have you considered getting a gently used Phaeton vs a new gasser? Get all the bells & whistles, durability, power, etc. Also, my 36 has the TV over fireplace option, so direct-viewing from couch. Good luck & enjoy!

[smd1x1]

I am a little confused on the all electric coach.
aqua hot runs on diesel or electric?
heated floor runs on electric only?

[saddlesore]

Originally Posted by smd1x1

I am a little confused on the all electric coach.
aqua hot runs on diesel or electric?
heated floor runs on electric only?

That is a fair question..
Even tho they call them "All Electric" the coach heating will be AquaHot/Oasis or similar systems.
The AquaHot normally operates on diesel &/or electric. (Altho there was/is units that are propane/electric out there)
When using diesel or electric the burner/heating element(s) only run long enough to "top off" the boiler fluid temperature. then shuts off. the only thing you hear inside the coach is the fans running/cycling on and off. until the boiler temp drops enough for the burner fires back up. (If running the electric elements, all you hear is the fans)
The electric is good down to about 45 to 50 deg outside temps.
Ours @ 20 deg and using the diesel burner, the burner fires up every 2 hours for about 20 minutes.
Our coach does not have the heated floors but I have heard that they can be either electric or radiant coolant grid under the floors. same as a sticks & bricks
Just as a by line, The diesel portion is plumbed into the main fuel tank(s),Our Diesel fuel tank holds 185 gallons usable , ran the A/H in sub freezing temps for 30 continuous days before tank got down to needing refilled (1/3 tank).
Aqua Hots are very frugal in fuel usage however... Your fuel usage will totally depend on the quality of coach build & the amount of insulation the mfg installs.

[jvalich]

Originally Posted by 62Morgan

Don't forget the annual cost of maintenance for a DP is $2K and the tires replacement cost more than the gasser. Insurance rates are up. DIY'er service and troubleshooting is more complex and requiring professional services in-lieu-of owner-enabled work. Diesel is a more complicated care than mere gasoline. Additives, filters, Algae formation, etc.

I'm new at the RV thing and maybe all wet, but have had diesels all my adult life and don't really agree with that.

You should be doing the same maintenance tasks on a gas unit or a diesel. Sure the diesel takes more oil and the filters might be 20 - 30% more expensive but all else is about the same.

Diesel can gel and grow algae if not used, Gas phase separates and degrades. Glow plugs rarely need changing, gas you deal with spark plugs. Brakes, pads are pads and linings are linings. Air brakes you have a dryer cartridge to change every 36 months, a gasser, brake fluid flush. Coolant is coolant. Tires, my friends 37' Winnie uses the same tires as my 37' DP. As to engine repairs, yep diesel is more but the labor rates are closer and closer all the time and I'll guess 95% of us don't do our own major engine repairs/overhauls.

About the only "system" that I have and he doesn't is a DEF system. Other than that the coaches are pretty much the same. Well, that is except for ride quality, (quietness/comfort down the road) handling and torque. Oh ya,and at night genset usage is much more enjoyable in my coach compared to his as I don't sleep on top of the genset. In addition, with proper maintenance, I'll be trucking down the road long after the gasser engine is in it's coffin.

Everyone has to determine what is best for you and your situation. Me, wanted the benefits of a diesel, for others, like my friend, the added upfront cost wasn't justifiable.

P.S. I pulled a 30' Boat on a trailer using a diesel pickup. Being "big" it's much nicer fueling at the diesel pumps than trying to be "big" and get to the gas pumps.

[brons2]

Originally Posted by Crasher

For those who claim that gas is the only practical way to go, I invite them to come and hook onto my 12,000# trailer with a 1500# tongue weight and head up I-70 west of Denver. I started with a 32' Southwind, then a 34' Adventurer, then a 36' Discovery DP with no slides. Then I decided to go back to a 36' Pace Arrow Vision gas with a slide out. The slide out was nice, but it lacked the solid and quiet ride of DP. We went back to DPs and haven't look back. I doubt that we will ever go back to a gas coach even when we give up taking our off road Jeep with us. The DP's have higher maintenance, but it is offset by the value of increased capacity to bring anything along and a more relaxed quieter ride.

You are really quoting what your needs are, not about what other's needs might be. Point stipulated - if you need to tow a heavy trailer behind your MH, you'll need a DP. For me personally, shopping used on a limited budget, I see a lot more gas models that would meet my needs.

The other thing that one poster mentioned was all the modern emissions equipment. The gasser pollution control hardware is much more mature than the diesel hardware, IMO. I'd rather not have EGR, DPF, SCR, etc. That would limit me to a 2002 or earlier DP. Which I'm not totally against, but the costs of major repairs are a little scary should the engine or transmission have a catastrophic failure.

Whereas with the gassers, I once worked in a machine shop as a young man and feel I could tackle pretty much anything, even a major rebuild.

Anyway,
YMMV.

(an aspiring RV'er)

[DrDaveMA]

Originally Posted by saddlesore

That is a fair question..
Even tho they call them "All Electric" the coach heating will be AquaHot/Oasis or similar systems.
The AquaHot normally operates on diesel &/or electric. (Altho there was/is units that are propane/electric out there)
When using diesel or electric the burner/heating element(s) only run long enough to "top off" the boiler fluid temperature. then shuts off. the only thing you hear inside the coach is the fans running/cycling on and off. until the boiler temp drops enough for the burner fires back up. (If running the electric elements, all you hear is the fans)
The electric is good down to about 45 to 50 deg outside temps.
Ours @ 20 deg and using the diesel burner, the burner fires up every 2 hours for about 20 minutes.
Our coach does not have the heated floors but I have heard that they can be either electric or radiant coolant grid under the floors. same as a sticks & bricks
Just as a by line, The diesel portion is plumbed into the main fuel tank(s),Our Diesel fuel tank holds 185 gallons usable , ran the A/H in sub freezing temps for 30 continuous days before tank got down to needing refilled (1/3 tank).
Aqua Hots are very frugal in fuel usage however... Your fuel usage will totally depend on the quality of coach build & the amount of insulation the mfg installs.

The Hydro Hot consumes 1/3 gallon per hour (actually IIRC it is .36/hour).

[DrDaveMA]

Originally Posted by brons2

You are really quoting what your needs are, not about what other's needs might be. Point stipulated - if you need to tow a heavy trailer behind your MH, you'll need a DP. For me personally, shopping used on a limited budget, I see a lot more gas models that would meet my needs.



The other thing that one poster mentioned was all the modern emissions equipment. The gasser pollution control hardware is much more mature than the diesel hardware, IMO. I'd rather not have EGR, DPF, SCR, etc. That would limit me to a 2002 or earlier DP. Which I'm not totally against, but the costs of major repairs are a little scary should the engine or transmission have a catastrophic failure.



Whereas with the gassers, I once worked in a machine shop as a young man and feel I could tackle pretty much anything, even a major rebuild.



Anyway,

YMMV.



(an aspiring RV'er)

You are really quoting your capabilities, not necessarily what others might be able to do.

I wonder how the “lot more gas models that would meet my needs” got on the lot, did the former owners trade up to a DP, a new gasser or did they quit RVing?