Tiffin/Gasser experiment..first 18 months

[garyb1st]

Wow, those are rather harsh comments about.

I share a lot of what Doug says. It's the reason why, at age 76 and never working with tools, I decided to replace the fuel pump and carburetor in my Onan Marquis 5500. Did it myself yesterday. While I didn't get an estimate, I assumed an RV service facility would charge full retail for an Onan Carb, about $400.00 plus labor, maybe another $150.00. My cost $50.00 for the carb and many hours on youtube watching others install the carb.

Now I could easily afford to have the work done. But whether it's greed, the cost of doing business today or maybe a lack of knowledgeable workers, I have paid too much for too little for too long. That and more often than not, the job I paid for either wasn't done right or not done at all.

IMHO, quality is lacking in most everything we buy. I've owned my own business and retired from more than 20 years in Aerospace. While I was a Corporate type, my responsibilities required regular contact and discussions with engineers, scientists, factory workers and many many lawyers. So I have some understanding and knowledge of how things work and the Corporate mentality.

When I began my career in Aerospace, most of the companies I was familiar with were headed by aerospace engineers or managers with similar engineering backgrounds. Some of the greatest inventive minds that were not driven by the bottom line. That's not to say they didn't care about profit. It's just that profit didn't dictate direction. That began to change in the late 80's and 90's. That's when MBA's began running companies and taking over management. What they brought to the table was the many ways they could increase bottom line. Things like outsourcing. Requiring subcontractors to do quality control on things we purchased. Never understood that one. So today we end up buying a lot of stuff that is manufactured with the maximum profit mindset. But at least it's marketed in a nice pretty package. Only problem, nothing seem to last. Like my 5 year old GE refrigerator that's beginning to fail. The old one made it more than 25 years. The furnace in my home was 35 years old when I replaced it. It still worked but wasn't very efficient. (actually in SoCal, that's not a biggie) The 4 microwave ovens I've purchased in the past 15 years. Where do all these relatively new pretty pieces of junk go.

I'm not angry, and I can buy whatever I want and certainly afford to have the work done but I smile when I think of that extra $500 in my bank account. I just wish I started doing the DIY maintenance/repair stuff years ago. I can afford a newer or even new motorhome. But if I spent several hundred thousand dollars on a brand new shiny full body paint pos, I'd really be pissed.

[LarryJB]

Here's the thing Doug, for every person that has trouble with a Tiffin, there are about a thousand who don't. We just don't hear from those folks, they are too busy enjoying their new toy to tell anybody how great it is. I personally know several Tiffin owners who love their coach and wouldn't give it up for anything else. In fact, the only time I ever hear of a dissatisfied owner is on forums like this.

[MidMichHunte]

Originally Posted by LarryJB

Here's the thing Doug, for every person that has trouble with a Tiffin, there are about a thousand who don't. We just don't hear from those folks, they are too busy enjoying their new toy to tell anybody how great it is. I personally know several Tiffin owners who love their coach and wouldn't give it up for anything else. In fact, the only time I ever hear of a dissatisfied owner is on forums like this.

IMHO, that sums up almost every manufacturer, most are good, some are far better, but you primarily only hear the bad stories. I looked at many different MH and it came down to two, both quality, decision was made on floor plan, reputation of both the manufacturer & Dealer & factory location. Tiffin was my #2 choice.

[JpalmerCass]

Originally Posted by LarryJB

Here's the thing Doug, for every person that has trouble with a Tiffin, there are about a thousand who don't.

I doubt that assertion is demonstrable. Many Tiffin owners I met had some kind of problem; more than one in a thousand, since I haven't met a thousand.

[creativepart]

I spent my working years in Professional positions in offices, but I worked in a few factories as a college student. I'm sure a large percentage of you folks have a little or a lot of factory work in your past.

Have you forgotten what work days and other workers were like? You work great "some" days. And, then you work sort of OK most days. But you totally screw up on other days and let it slide. You, no doubt, saw other workers that were huge screw ups and you just let it slide.

Some factory management was great and helpful, others were just plain evil. Some work conditions were impossible, some quotas were far too ambitious. Corporate decisions made no sense.

So it is at every factory. Including Tiffin, Newmar, Winnebago, Thor, etc, etc, etc.

What about this is not understandable to you now with your new RV? Quality has to be designed in up front from before production begins. You can't expect 100% of your RV factory workers to suddenly be intelligent, dedicated, ethical, concerned and loyal every day. You can't expect them all to do a great job every day, on every part of the assembly line.

It's this "quality" that's missing. No US RV manufacture is designing in excellent quality up front. RVs are thrown together. Period.

[manderson2228]

Originally Posted by jeddpearl

I don't know. Right now, after reading this, I'm pretty glad I have my Georgetown.

I owned a Coachmen Mirada prior to my Tiffin. The mirada is the brother of the Georgetown actually gets built on the same line by the same folks in the same factory. I'd be real cautious taking a victory lap with a 1 year old GT. I know all too well of the problems, and there is even talk of a recall on the slide issues.

[LarryJB]

We all have our own version of what is reality and discussions like this one are not going to change anyone's mind about it. It's sort of like discussing politics, we can talk about it all day and night, but in the end nothing is accomplished, no one's mind is changed and everyone walks away shaking their heads, thinking that the other guy is an idiot.

[GoneToTheDog]

Owning any RV can very often become a love/hate relationship.

Anyone can end up with....a good one....a somewhat good one....a somewhat bad one....or a really bad one. From any manufacturer. All across the board.

A long list of factors can/will dictate your degree of satisfaction/enjoyment.

As the old saying goes:
"You pays your money, and you takes your chances".

Though definitely not perfect, and there have been a few annoyances along the way, but luckily ours has been pretty darn reliable and trouble free overall. We have enjoyed every mile, taking us to some places and destinations we may have not experienced otherwise.

[TimmyB]

Originally Posted by GoneToTheDog

Owning any RV can very often become a love/hate relationship.

Anyone can end up with....a good one....a somewhat good one....a somewhat bad one....or a really bad one. From any manufacturer. All across the board.

Exactly. It really is important that you select a dealer that you feel will be able to correct those things that go wrong. If you are trusting the manufacturer, and I don't care WHICH manufacturer, I believe you will be disappointed.

A long list of factors can/will dictate your degree of satisfaction/enjoyment.

As the old saying goes:
"You pays your money, and you takes your chances".

Though definitely not perfect, and there have been a few annoyances along the way, but luckily ours has been pretty darn reliable and trouble free overall. We have enjoyed every mile, taking us to some places and destinations we may have not experienced otherwise.

Us, too. Our Vegas has taken us 10,000 miles in the first six months and we absolutely love it. Never could have done what we did with cars and hotel rooms!

We are in the process of trading that Vegas in and getting something much bigger from Fleetwood. Now, if you read all of the forums, you'll be inclined to think that's a step up in quality. Well, we HOPE so, but the Thor was pretty darn good AND the dealer has been great about getting things fixed. Fingers crossed!

[beaunaro]

Geez man( Doug),
Wow!
Your analogy is full of assumptions regarding Yiffin.
As angry as you seem to be and as much as it seems to bother you, you should march right into Bob Tiffins office (no appointment needed to do this) and tell him face to face what you just assumed about his company, and have proclaimed here.
Comparing Tiffin to Boeing is entirely unfair, but it seems you like to talk and in your head it probably makes you seem like an authority.
Your views are nothing more than an unfounded opinion without factually data.
Sure glad you don’t own a Tiffin because then we that h
own one would have to listen to you blast your negativity on the Tiffin forums.
Are there problems with Tiffin products? Yes
Do customers do enough research before selecting a brand and a dealer?
Mostly not.
Does Tiffin go above and beyond to fix and repair even after the warranty period? Yes
Is Bob Tiffin the greatest customer service corporate President ever? Yes

[dougw2007]

There are a couple of things I need to make clear here before we go on.

First thing is I don't think I ever said that Tiffins were junk or garbage. I have not gone back and looked at my posts, but I don't think I said that, and if I did I would retract it and or correct what I am saying.

I don't believe that Tiffin is making a poor quality motor home from the standpoint of design and materials used. My first motorhome, bought in 1977, was an Open Road motorhome, and that was a junky motorhome. 2x2 wall construction, one inch fiberglass insulation, cabinets made of cheap particle board, etc. Motorhome construction today is a lot different.

Point number 2 is that this whole topic was set off by one poster with a long list of complaints. To be fair to Tiffin, we have not verified all that he says was wrong. Please don't get me wrong I am not saying he lied or exaggerated, I am saying that sometimes people post negative reviews of a product to help another product. Please don't get me wrong on this (again) I am not saying that is the case here. I am saying that in today's world it does happen. Google 'fake book reviews' slamming certain authors.

Okay so now we should be clear on those points.

Now to address certain posts that show up when things like this are talked about.

The concept; that only people that show up on forums are people that have had problems. Which is true. So in theory there could be very few bad motorhomes.

But that brings up a problem. Tiffin is a very large company and they want to maintain a good reputation. So, when a problem shows up, as with the OP, wouldn't it make sense to take care of it right away? And to pay the owner for lost time and motel stays? If you sell 100,000 motorhomes a year and there are only 4 that have a problem the cost of fixing those four would be minimal. Plus the great advertising you get from that. Word of mouth.

So what I have trouble with is when the company says to make an appointment, bring it back and wait on line, and we can only fix ten of your items. That makes no sense. You would think that you have a bunch of repair people sitting around at the repair place watching you tube and playing cards. Like the Maytag repair person. Bored stiff just waiting for a chance to fix something.

But no. It seems from all I have heard there are big delays and waits to get stuff fixed. The one person said he had to wait a month to get the warranty inspector to look at it. The OP said 5 1/2 months in the shop out of 18. How can this be if you only have a very small number of defective units? I get suspicious that there are a lot of defective units by the way defective units are handled. Didn't his slide issue happen in month 14? If I was Tiffin I would apologize, send some one out to fix it and not charge for it. Why not if you have only had 5 or 10 motorhome defects that year? But no, the company will argue and try to get out of paying, more then likely. Are they afraid if they fix a problem in month 14 for one person will they have to do that for 10 thousand others?

So I am back to my original premise; the people in charge want to produce more units per day or month, to make more money. Boeing is a premier airplane builder and they make a quality airplane but part of the trouble was trying to maximize profits by forcing workers to go faster. Trying to take short cuts on stuff and ignoring a whistleblower and their test pilots. Tiffin is probably a premier coach builder but if they start pushing things out too fast with out quality checks, then there will be the type of problems posted and the delays to get it fixed right.

Now congratulations to the 74 year old that fixed his own generator fuel pump. Great feeling isn't it? I have found that when I have to fix something I grumble and gripe about it. It is so hard to get started, but in every case when I am done I am always happy and glad I did it. It makes you feel so good to accomplish it, and to save a bunch of money and not to have to worry about some repair person learning at your expense.

[AbdRahim]

I hear it is often a six month wait to get factory service, two to three months at a dealer. That is a lot of broken stuff. Just sayin'.

[LarryJB]

Originally Posted by AbdRahim

I hear it is often a six month wait to get factory service, two to three months at a dealer. That is a lot of broken stuff. Just sayin'.

From Tiffin? Where did you hear that? Think you need to do a little more research. I had a warranty issue this past summer. I took it to a local RV repair shop where I got in in less than a week. They determined a trip to Red Bay would be preferred due to the nature of the repair. We drove to Red Bay, checked in, and we were on our way home in 5 days. While there, I think I ran into one owner who was unhappy with his coach, the rest were like me, very happy with the quality and service of Tiffin. This is my own personal experience. I think you will find my experience is much more common than the bad ones.
I challenge you to take a trip to Red Bay, go around to all the campgrounds including the service center, and ask each Tiffin owner about their experience with their coach. I think (I really do not know for sure) that you will find over 90% very happy with the quality of their coach and also the quality of factory service.

[Donskiman]

Traveling to Red Bay is not always convenient, especially for those who may live 1000+ miles away. A 2000+ mile round trip has costs both in money and time, not to mention wear and tear on the coach and tires. Such trips shouldn't be necessary and wouldn't be if there was more focus on quality and less on quantity. Just saying...