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Old 09-06-2016, 12:30 PM   #1
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Want Solar Installed on Allegro 32SA

We purchased a new Allegro 32SA 2016. It has the solar option wired. I am currently staying in Vermont for the next 5 weeks and would like to have solar installed to its capacity. Does anyone have an easy either DIY or installer. I have roofed a home and done plumbing but I must admit I feel a bit mystified and afraid when it comes to putting holes into my new rig.
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Old 09-06-2016, 06:19 PM   #2
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Just remember, Alfred Hitchcock was never afraid of his horror movies. Do not fear. There is this magic stuff called "self leveling caulk" (Sikaflex) that does miracles when it come to holes in the roof. There are several penetrations already and you will find this self leveling caulk all over the place up there. The stuff is expensive but you can actually get it at Home Depot. It is not in the regular paint section, it is in the roofing section.

Sikaflex 10.1 fl. oz. Self-Leveling Sealant-91065 - The Home Depot

It is important to take the time and mentally route the wires on your MH from the roof to the controller. Once you get that done the rest is fairly easy. Just time consuming.

One thing I would like to mention, having solar allows you to go to National Camp grounds and enjoy the beauty of nature QUIETLY. Otherwise you are always limited to RV parks that do not smell like pine sap. Having solar just opens up a lot more options for your adventure. I don't sell solar, nor do I make any money on it, but I am sold on it. The experience of dry camping has a whole new feeling for us. I never have to worry about not being able to start my motor home because I used all the energy in my batteries. The sun takes care of that. And as for the generator, it should last a very long time.

Enclosed is a picture of the rig and a picture of the dry camp RV park we stayed in. Notice the electrical energy source lighting up the background. Enjoy.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:21 PM   #3
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I installed 1040 watts on the roof of my Allegro Breeze and a Morningstart TS-60 controller, heavy wiring and circuitbreakers for $1420


The best deal I know of currently on solar panels is www.solarblvd.com 160 Watt panels are $115. (you can see 4 of them in the pictures below- the other 4 panels are 100 watt panels.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:45 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHelmann View Post
I installed 1040 watts on the roof of my Allegro Breeze and a Morningstart TS-60 controller, heavy wiring and circuitbreakers for $1420


The best deal I know of currently on solar panels is www.solarblvd.com 160 Watt panels are $115. (you can see 4 of them in the pictures below- the other 4 panels are 100 watt panels.
Nice job. What is the width dimension of those panels?
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:10 PM   #5
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Nice job. What is the width dimension of those panels?
26" wide x 58" long
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:18 PM   #6
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Hey nice roof saver .
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:43 PM   #7
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We have the 16 32SA with the solar option, have not installed solar yet. From what I hear the gauge you got for 250 bucks is 8. I also heard you could of asked for a heavier gauge during the build. I wish my salesman or Tiffin would of told me I could of asked for 4 gauge, probably for just a couple extra bucks. Your 1040 watt unit on the 8gauge? and if so is that sufficient for efficiency???? thanks
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Old 10-21-2016, 02:38 PM   #8
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No not 8 gage- that's too small for 60 amps unless you are running panels in series to increase the voltage and using a MPPT controller. I have a combiner box with an as short as possible run from the roof to the controller with 4 gage wire). 12 Gage wire feeds the output from each panel to the combiner box. The panels are all connected in parallel (as just a palm sized shadow on a panel and the current from that panel drops dramatically- usually about 80%). This allows me to camp where there is trees and not worry about what direction the RV is facing.
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Old 10-21-2016, 07:57 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by ScottHelmann View Post
No not 8 gage- that's too small for 60 amps unless you are running panels in series to increase the voltage and using a MPPT controller. I have a combiner box with an as short as possible run from the roof to the controller with 4 gage wire). 12 Gage wire feeds the output from each panel to the combiner box. The panels are all connected in parallel (as just a palm sized shadow on a panel and the current from that panel drops dramatically- usually about 80%). This allows me to camp where there is trees and not worry about what direction the RV is facing.
Let's take a look at what really is happening. Your 8 gauge wire may be perfectly fine as Scott says if you combine your panels correctly. Using Ohms Law, power equals current times voltage. We know the power because it is given to us in watts from the panels and we can determine the voltage from the solar array by combining the solar panels in series or parallel or a combination of both. Adding panels in series adds voltage, and adding panels in parallel adds current. When you run all of your panels in parallel you're output is going to be somewhere between 12.5 and 16.5 volts. If you combine all of the solar panels output in parallel you are going to have 1040 watts = 12.5 volts times 86.6 amps. So in that arraignment your 8 gauge wire won't work. BUT, if you combine your panels in an array that produces 37.5 volts, then you have 1040 watts = 37.5v times 27.73 amps. A #8 wire will hold 40 amps. So, you are good to go.

The key here is that you need a charge controller to take the higher voltage and convert it down to 14.4 volts to charge the batteries. This is done to allow the higher voltages to be transmitted on a smaller wire to the charge controller and then lowered to the 14.4 volts like the transformer lowers the votlage to 240v AC for your home. The voltage off of the power poles is over 7,000 volts AC and they can use a very small wire, relatively speaking, to transmit enough power for many homes. Notice I didn't say "to transmit enough current or voltage to run many homes". It is power or watts. I run a #10 wire from the roof to my charge controller for my power. From the charge controller you are going to need a # 4 wire to the battery bank because the voltage is lower. The charge controller should be close to the battery bank. I also have a 30 amp DC circuit breaker for the panels and a 100 amp DC circuit breaker for the output to the batteries from the charge controller.

Here is a note of caution: If you are running parallel solar panels directly to your batteries you are probably going to have to replace your batteries in half the time. When you apply 16.5v to 17 volts to a battery that is run down to say 11.8v, you are going to bake the plates and the battery cannot absorb the power you are applying to them. Additionally. any appliance that runs on 12.5 volts is going to run faster and hotter at 17v. The charge controller manages all of these things for you. I use the Midnite Solar 150 charge controller. This unit is more expensive but great insurance against burning up the batteries. It also has intelligence built into it, so, if your batteries are low, the charge controller gauges the voltage and only charges 1 volt higher than the battery voltage so it won't burn them up. Also, if you are not using DC circuit breakers you are creating a fire hazard in your MH. DC breakers are not AC breakers and there is a difference. If you have no breakers at all and the battery fails and shorts and your panels are producing 1040 watts to the battery bank, your wire to the bank will act like a heater until it catches fire. Hope this helps. If you already knew this please disregard.
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Old 10-21-2016, 10:53 PM   #10
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Much of what Bill is saying is true. The Midnight Solar 150 is a decent MPPT controller which basically is a DC to DC converter and does a great job of intelligently charging your batteries. It converts any extra voltage into additional current to harvest more power out of your solar panels. In real life you will never see the full wattage of power out of a panel- figure 70-80% and your calculations will be much more accurate. The only real downside to putting panels in series is if there is just a small area of shadow (5'"x5") on one of the panels in that series string then the power output of that series string is pretty much shut down. That's why on RVs and sailboats I recommend parallel panel installations even with the extra cost of the heavier wire.

I also strongly recommend installing a battery monitor. It's basically a gas gauge for your batteries and measures the amp hours in and out of your battery bank so you always know where you are. Xantrex Link Pro or models from Bougart engineering are great choices. Google Handy Bob and check out some of his writings as I have found and can verify they are correct . (I didn't discover his stuff until after I had completed my earlier design and redesign on my old camper.

I had Solar on my old camper for 5 years (800 watts), and my home for the last 2 years (4.2kw) Now I get to retire in a couple of months and travel in my Allegro Breeze.... Life is good!
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Old 10-22-2016, 09:20 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottHelmann View Post
Much of what Bill is saying is true. The Midnight Solar 150 is a decent MPPT controller which basically is a DC to DC converter and does a great job of intelligently charging your batteries. It converts any extra voltage into additional current to harvest more power out of your solar panels. In real life you will never see the full wattage of power out of a panel- figure 70-80% and your calculations will be much more accurate. The only real downside to putting panels in series is if there is just a small area of shadow (5'"x5") on one of the panels in that series string then the power output of that series string is pretty much shut down. That's why on RVs and sailboats I recommend parallel panel installations even with the extra cost of the heavier wire.

I also strongly recommend installing a battery monitor. It's basically a gas gauge for your batteries and measures the amp hours in and out of your battery bank so you always know where you are. Xantrex Link Pro or models from Bougart engineering are great choices. Google Handy Bob and check out some of his writings as I have found and can verify they are correct . (I didn't discover his stuff until after I had completed my earlier design and redesign on my old camper.

I had Solar on my old camper for 5 years (800 watts), and my home for the last 2 years (4.2kw) Now I get to retire in a couple of months and travel in my Allegro Breeze.... Life is good!
Well said Scott. I agree with the battery monitor. The Midnite Solar has a front panel that comes off and you can buy a dummy panel to put in its place for $35. The front panel can then be placed inside the MH as a battery monitor. This may determine which charge controller you purchase. You can also install a simple voltage meter in the coach that will keep an eye on the voltage of the batteries at all times. You can tap into any 12v line for this meter since all 12v comes from the same source. You can have multiple meters in the coach.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I somewhat disagree with the comments about shading. Older panels, when shaded, completely shut down. But newer panels have diodes built in and allow the current to "go around" the shaded panels. It is important to get the right panels when using series installations. I think Scott is also confirming that the installation of Solar is not a big deal. You can do it. Just read up on it and be careful about your connections in the sun. Better to install in the shade or garage. Here is a good article about shading of solar panels.

Partial shading and solar panel arrays - Solar Choice

One more thing. The size of your batteries is important but you need to understand why. First of all, most of your usage is going to be during the day. Coffee, fans, pumps, radios, TV etc, are going to be used more so during the daytime than at night. Your solar panel will provide most of the power to operate most of these things during the day and still charge the batteries. A lot of the power won't ever see the batteries but will go directly to the appliances. It is important that you charge up the batteries, which means you need to conserve usage on other appliances, before the sun goes down. At night all of the lights would be off and at the most, you would be running is the fridge and some fans. Usually 2 12v batteries will cover this for an over night. If your going to run the TV and stereo, Blue Ray disc, lights and more at night, your not going to make it on 2 batteries. A little discipline during your dry camp is in order. My point is this: It doesn't matter how many solar panels you have up on the roof or how many watts you have generating from your panels if your batteries will only store 3 or 4 hundred volt amps. If your batteries get down to 11.8v then you better start the generator or pack it in. In other words, when you dry camp with solar you can't Rough it too Smoothly.
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Old 10-26-2016, 08:47 AM   #12
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Well said Scott. I agree with the battery monitor. The Midnite Solar has a front panel that comes off and you can buy a dummy panel to put in its place for $35. The front panel can then be placed inside the MH as a battery monitor. This may determine which charge controller you purchase. You can also install a simple voltage meter in the coach that will keep an eye on the voltage of the batteries at all times. You can tap into any 12v line for this meter since all 12v comes from the same source. You can have multiple meters in the coach.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I somewhat disagree with the comments about shading. Older panels, when shaded, completely shut down. But newer panels have diodes built in and allow the current to "go around" the shaded panels. It is important to get the right panels when using series installations. I think Scott is also confirming that the installation of Solar is not a big deal. You can do it. Just read up on it and be careful about your connections in the sun. Better to install in the shade or garage. Here is a good article about shading of solar panels.

Partial shading and solar panel arrays - Solar Choice

One more thing. The size of your batteries is important but you need to understand why. First of all, most of your usage is going to be during the day. Coffee, fans, pumps, radios, TV etc, are going to be used more so during the daytime than at night. Your solar panel will provide most of the power to operate most of these things during the day and still charge the batteries. A lot of the power won't ever see the batteries but will go directly to the appliances. It is important that you charge up the batteries, which means you need to conserve usage on other appliances, before the sun goes down. At night all of the lights would be off and at the most, you would be running is the fridge and some fans. Usually 2 12v batteries will cover this for an over night. If your going to run the TV and stereo, Blue Ray disc, lights and more at night, your not going to make it on 2 batteries. A little discipline during your dry camp is in order. My point is this: It doesn't matter how many solar panels you have up on the roof or how many watts you have generating from your panels if your batteries will only store 3 or 4 hundred volt amps. If your batteries get down to 11.8v then you better start the generator or pack it in. In other words, when you dry camp with solar you can't Rough it too Smoothly.

Hey Bill! Its great to get to chat and challenge each other and learn in the process!

A volt meter in the coach to see the battery voltage is a inexpensive and great idea but only gives you a ballpark indication. Of course the most accurate way to determine battery charge is with a battery hydrometer, however a voltmeter only approaches being really accurate on a "rested" battery which is a battery that has been sitting with no load on it for 6 hours and some manufactures say overnight. (Yea- I know its probably crazy that I read all the manufactures data but its part of the hazard of my job as an engineer). A battery monitor is separate than the display on your solar controller. It measures everything- showing how much current has been taken out of and put into your batteries. It is a gas gage for your batteries and will pay for itself with your first set of batteries (that end up lasting longer) as it gives you accurate information about what is actually happening and will allow you to avoid accidently over discharging them. It is the first step to a well designed solar system and honestly if someone installs one then I know they are serious about wanting a system that really works well and I should go ahead and invest time helping them out. Another person that thinks this way would be a guy I discovered late in my research and testing a few years ago call Handy Bob (Google him as he has some good information (and a few rants too but its a great source)).

Crazy areas where salesmen have taken information out of context- Overall charging rates of AGM vs Flooded cell lead acid batteries, The real life average power output of solar panels (typically about 80% of rated output) and the function shading diodes and PWM vs MPPT Solar controllers

On to the topic of diodes- A place where salesmen have taken information and twisted it a bit and often out of context is in the function of diodes installed on solar panels.

Blocking diodes (all solar panels will have these) keep current from flowing backwards through the panel when not producing power.

Bypass diodes - allows power to bypass around the panel should the panel fail or be in full shadow (not producing power). The details of how a bypass diode in this application works is that the diode acts like a switch. It doesn't or won't conduct or turn on until the panel output (shaded panel) voltage drops below .7 volts. As long as the panel is producing some power (over .7 volts) then the bypass diode stays shut off and in a series string of panels this dramatically reduces the current passing through the entire string and on to the charge controller. I never thought of doing a video when I was testing this some years ago but here is a link to a video by Gone with the Wynns which might better show how this works.
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