2011 Terra TS, and continuous problems

[Curtster]

Hi forum,
We purchased our Terra 31TS brand new in 2011, and while in many ways it's been great, we've had a couple of significant problems that the dealer/manufacturer can't seem to fix.
Living in So. Cal, and having kids in school means we do our biggest trips in the summer, and that means heat. Driving across the desert, we need to run the generator to use an air conditioner to keep the temperature reasonable inside. Well, when it gets hot outside (above about 105), the generator quits, and will not restart, leaving us to sweat thru the rest of the drive.
Usually, this is about the time that our propane tank overheats, and blows off the safety valve to keep from exploding. Not only is this expensive, but it's very scary, and dumping raw propane overboard while driving cannot be safe.
We had the coach into the shop for these problems so many times, that Fleetwood eventually replaced the generator with a new efi unit, and that was supposed to be the end all cure to the problem. Well, it's not, and the thing still quits when it gets hot.
Has anyone else had these kinds of problems? Do I have a lemon? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Curt

[plasma800]

heats tough on electrical items... but I've never had a propane tank blow off -- ever, and I don't think I've ever heard of anyone else having this happen either.

I'd hardly describe this as a lemon, but it's certainly a problem.

This generator operates on gasoline yes? Not LP? Just clarifying. Book says it has an operating temperature up to 120 degrees. Unfortunately, Onan won't talk to you directly.

How new is the EFI unit? I would assume the airfilter is in good shape. Could be a fuel problem?

You might check the serial number of the genset for recalls, I know they had some control board issues - but for two gensets to behave the same, it makes me wonder about the fuel pump...

Could be too much load? I'm not sure what size your genset is, or what size your a/c is, but it's possible that the heat is causing enough resistance in the wire that the genset simply overloads trying to push the power.

[plasma800]

is there enough airflow around the genset? Where's it located within the coach?

[ualdriver]

Originally Posted by Curtster

Hi forum,
We purchased our Terra 31TS brand new in 2011, and while in many ways it's been great, we've had a couple of significant problems that the dealer/manufacturer can't seem to fix.
Living in So. Cal, and having kids in school means we do our biggest trips in the summer, and that means heat. Driving across the desert, we need to run the generator to use an air conditioner to keep the temperature reasonable inside. Well, when it gets hot outside (above about 105), the generator quits, and will not restart, leaving us to sweat thru the rest of the drive.
Usually, this is about the time that our propane tank overheats, and blows off the safety valve to keep from exploding. Not only is this expensive, but it's very scary, and dumping raw propane overboard while driving cannot be safe.
We had the coach into the shop for these problems so many times, that Fleetwood eventually replaced the generator with a new efi unit, and that was supposed to be the end all cure to the problem. Well, it's not, and the thing still quits when it gets hot.
Has anyone else had these kinds of problems? Do I have a lemon? Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Curt

Can't help you with the propane tank blowing the safety, but your Terra looks a lot like my 2011 Fleetwood Storm, and my generator has been shutting down at high/humid temperatures as well.

There's tons of stuff out there on these generators shutting down during high temperatures (exactly when you need them), and I think I read just about everything that was out there. If your generator sits in a poorly ventilated compartment like mine, and its air intake is basically right where the compartment door is, there's a fix from Fleetwood that basically involves you buying a kit from them. The kit is an air intake duct that runs from the compartment door (you cut out an opening and screw in a grill), to the generator intake with a short amount of ducting. That allows the generator to intake "cooler" outside air. They can also send you some heat shields and a kit to move your generator exhaust pipe away from the generator where the heat from the pipe contributes to the generator overheating problem.

Also, if you look in the generator's owner's manual, the generator should be flashing a code that tells you what caused the autoshutdown.

PM me your e-mail and I'll send you the PDFs that Fleetwood sent me with the aforementioned fixes.

[Curtster]

Plasma,
The genset is a new (2014 is when Fleetwood replaced in at their Decatur facility) 5.5 gas EFI unit. We only run one A/C unit at a time, so it should have lots of extra capacity. It has about 50 hours of run time on it, and the filter is clean. It is full of oil. It lives behind the drivers side front wheel.
My theory is that because there is no shielding between the red hot exhaust manifolds of the motor, it is blasted with probably 200 degree air when chugging up a hill on a hot day. No wonder it shuts off! The propane tank is on the passenger side, and there's nothing between it and the other manifold, so it overheats. I've put my hand on it after driving and it is HOT.
I've told Fleetwood about this, and they keep saying nothing is wrong. BS.

Curt

[rapid rick]

Curt,
Click on my avatar,then search my posts,you will find pics of the heat shield that fixed the problem on my 2013 terra 35k. I have since shortened the exhaust, and wrapped the exhaust pipe with black header wrap from summit racing supply.I have the 5.5 non efi unit, that sucks air from the bottom, hope this helps.

[tim myers]

Sounds similar to what FW did for mine this past week. When at FW for service back in July I drove home in 95* heat and ran the genny to help cool the coach. It would only run for about 20 minutes and shut down, so I emailed FW again. Their response was quick and they knew exactly what was going on. As Rick said the heat from the big V-10 and the exhaust cooks the fuel in the fuel line and caused vapor lock. The fix was to shield the genny from the engine heat, add a vent to the genny door to help vent air and to install a larger fuel pump relocated to closer to the chassis fuel tank. This is to help the fuel line stay positively pressurized and help fend off having the gasoline vaporize in the line. They also added a fuel return line and were supposed to extend the genny exhaust line to farther back on the coach. For some reason they muffler shop couldn't make this work.

I ran the generator all the way home but it was only about 65* outside so no idea yet how it will react next summer.

[Curtster]

Thanks Tim,
FW already replaced the generator with the efi unit, and did exhaust routing changes, and fuel line mods.
I've told them that the direct blast of hot air from the engine is probably the culprit in both the generator failing as well as the propane tank blowing off. We have an appointment with their super secret repair facility in Riverside later this month... I'll let you know what happens there!
Curt

[ualdriver]

Originally Posted by Curtster

Thanks Tim,
FW already replaced the generator with the efi unit, and did exhaust routing changes, and fuel line mods.
I've told them that the direct blast of hot air from the engine is probably the culprit in both the generator failing as well as the propane tank blowing off. We have an appointment with their super secret repair facility in Riverside later this month... I'll let you know what happens there!
Curt

I have a "new to me" 2011 Fleetwood Storm 30SA, with generator and propane tank locations similar to your Terra. Last summer was my first summer with the Storm, and my generator did the auto-shutdown thing as well in the Florida 95F heat/humidity. Fortunately, no problem with the propane tank yet in the heat. Unfortunately, since I was the second owner and/or the unit was well out of warranty, all Fleetwood would do for me is provide technical support. I spent about $200 bucks in Fleetwood parts in the form of 2 "kits," and received phone and e-mail technical support from Fleetwood.

I put the inlet in the generator compartment door so now the generator sucks in cooler air from the outside instead of the warm air between the body and the hot generator. I also had to splice the fuel line between the generator fuel pump and the carburetor, so the fuel that doesn't get sucked into the carburetor recirculates all the way back to the fuel tank instead of sitting there along side the hot generator and turning to vapor.

I have yet to use the generator since the fix, so hopefully those two things do the trick. If not, I'm going to wrap the generator exhaust in header wrap and move the fuel pump somewhere else besides directly adjacent to the hot generator! Why co-locate the fuel pump right next to a hot generator AND make the generator fuel pump inaccessible for replacement to boot!

It's frustrating that Fleetwood wouldn't have figured this stuff out on their own and built it right in the first place. From what I read on the VERY lengthy generator auto-shutdown thread somewhere on this forum, the Thor Ace owners have had to move their generator from the front compartment to the rearmost compartment, right under the bedroom!

[tim myers]

Originally Posted by Curtster

Thanks Tim,
FW already replaced the generator with the efi unit, and did exhaust routing changes, and fuel line mods.
I've told them that the direct blast of hot air from the engine is probably the culprit in both the generator failing as well as the propane tank blowing off. We have an appointment with their super secret repair facility in Riverside later this month... I'll let you know what happens there!
Curt

Since you did the work on your coach yourself can you explain the differences in the fuel system setup to me. I haven't crawled under the Storm to trace things out yet.

I don't think they swapped my carb out for fuel injection if that is what you are referring to as EFI. I do know they installed a return fuel line. Installed a new fuel pump at rear of unit. Installed heat shields at genset, installed vent in Bay door. They were originally going to reroute an exhaust pipe but we're not able to do so for some reason. I don't know if it was the exhaust on the coach or on the genset

[tim myers]

Opps maybe I should have addressed that to ualdriver

[ualdriver]

Originally Posted by tim myers

Since you did the work on your coach yourself can you explain the differences in the fuel system setup to me. I haven't crawled under the Storm to trace things out yet.

I don't think they swapped my carb out for fuel injection if that is what you are referring to as EFI. I do know they installed a return fuel line. Installed a new fuel pump at rear of unit. Installed heat shields at genset, installed vent in Bay door. They were originally going to reroute an exhaust pipe but we're not able to do so for some reason. I don't know if it was the exhaust on the coach or on the genset

Originally Posted by tim myers

Opps maybe I should have addressed that to ualdriver

My gen is carbureted. I didn't know they could switch out a carburetor for EFI!

I can tell you what they had me to do mine, not sure about yours. The vent in the door is actually an inlet so the generator can suck in cooler outside air through the inlet instead of air from the hotter areas directly adjacent to the generator casing.

The fuel pump and its filter sit within the generator casing, which gets really hot and eventually vaporizes the fuel between the fuel pump and the generator carburetor under hot temperatures. On mine I put a "T" between the fuel pump and the carburetor so that the generators fuel pump continues to circulate fuel when the carburetor doesn't need the fuel pump's full output. That keeps the fuel cool. The "T" returns fuel to a little "nub" on top of the F53 chassis fuel tank via rubber fuel hose and a length of steel (aluminum?) fuel line added to the length of the chassis. It's pretty straightforward if you stick your head under there and follow the fuel line.

They were probably talking about moving the generator's exhaust, as the V10's exhaust is on the other side of the chassis. The generator's exhaust runs right along the generator, further contributing to the overheating. I didn't move mine.....yet. When I talked to the mechanic/engineer at Fleetwood about moving my exhaust, he said first try steps one and two (new intake, new fuel lines for re circulation). He said that will likely fix the problem. If it doesn't, then he said think about moving the fuel pump and exhaust. I read somewhere else that another owner put header wrap around the generator exhaust to help with the heat problem. I might take a look at doing that next spring.

[tim myers]

According to the paperwork they did install a new fuel pump and located it back by the chassis fuel tank. It must be bigger as I can hear it pumping when I start the genset. I will look to see how they routed the return line to see how it is plumbed and compare notes with you. I might also try the exhaust heat wrap. I think that was RapidRick that did it. He is a pretty good wrench.

[rapid rick]

Hey tim,
Yeah it was me , I took the exhaust off, spun it 180 degrees so it exited behind the genset, cut off about 3 feet of excess pipe. While it was off I scuffed the pipe with scotchbrite pad, washed with laquer thinner,then painted pipe with 2 coats of rustoleum high temp stove paint. After it dried,I wrapped with header wrap,and put stainless tip back on,reinstalled pipe. I also think a lot of heat that exits from the genset itself is contributing to the fuel line getting too hot, I'm thinking the hot air is getting trapped up between the frame rails/cargo holds area,especially when parked,or in slow traffic,etc. My genset has worked ok since mods have been done, but if it should start acting up,I'm thinking a tin sweeping shroud to divert the hot air to the outboard area might be next logical step to divert hot air away from underside of coach.If you ever lay on ground while genset is running, you'll see what I mean about amount of heat exiting genset... I'm always thinking ahead,looking for something `to fix before it's even a friggin problem just can't leave it alone.......