Discovery A/V System Disappoints

[pagosajoe]

I am sorely disappointed after buying a 2012 Discovery 36J motor home with an MSRP of nearly $265,000, to find out that it is NOT possible to view satellite TV on all FOUR TV sets in the coach without having to physically switch inputs/outputs on the Trulink HDMI switchers/multiplexers.

Why did Fleetwood build such a dysfunctional audio/video system into such a "flagship" coach? It needs two more of the same kind of HDMI switchers/multiplexers (Trulink 1X2) to be able to accommodate viewing on all FOUR TV sets, or one more 2X4 HDMI switcher/multiplexer to accomplish this.

I expect that Fleetwood would step up and make this right - provide 2012 Discovery purchasers with the equipment needed to be able to fully use the video system that Fleetwood designed.

This is an amazing shortcoming in quality and engineering design in an otherwise quality coach.

Has anyone else had this experience? Our dealer confirmed that this is a problem with the Discovery, if not other Fleetwood models.

[The General]

Hi Joe,

I wish the sat option I paid for would have had more than 1 LNB and assumed Fleetwood would have set it up to function correctly.
Weingard is a no brainer system but probably costs more than KVH R4SL.
I can't believe they wouldn't have mounds of feedback since 2006, even after the takeover.

[wa8yxm]

First if you get a Dome (Needed if you want in-motion) All domes are ONE LNB, may be a single or a double, (Depends on the LNB) but there is only one. The nature of domes is that's all folks.. Now a dual LNB can run 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Receivers (With the proper switch) but a single runs only one. TWO LNBs (Dish 500 for example) is a TWIN.

As for the switching.... I will assume you have a box of many buttons... Can you better describe the issue.. I'm guessing your sat receiver is high def, and has HDMI out and the switcher only switches RF, not HDMI. If that is the case there is a "Work Around". At least I think there is,, Need to research it myself.

I did find a converter in the UK but nothing here in the states.. And of course you may loose HD when you convert. Converter may be called a Modulator.. Only units in the US I have found did not do HDMI.

[RonK]

Don't think your the only one with A/V problems with Fleetwood coaches. Our 2011 AC Revolution has a JUMBLE of HDMI, composite, component, and coaxial cables everywhere and I haven't found anyone who has ever been able to tell me what is what. I have the mid TV working well and the front TV good, but the back TV not so good and the outside TV who knows. It takes us ~15 minutes to get a DVD to play on the galley TV by turning the TV off/on, the DVD player off/on multiple times before it will work. AND, whats with all the infrared sensors at each location. Ours don't do ANYTHING!! Very frustrating to say the least!! If anyone has any solution I'd really, really appreciate it. Sure glad I have a 35 year background in electronics or I'd really be lost. Oh, yea about that Clarion radio... don't get me started on that one! Other than that, we love our coach!!

[pagosajoe]

Originally Posted by The General

Hi Joe,

I wish the sat option I paid for would have had more than 1 LNB and assumed Fleetwood would have set it up to function correctly.
Weingard is a no brainer system but probably costs more than KVH R4SL.
I can't believe they wouldn't have mounds of feedback since 2006, even after the takeover.

Hi Steve,

Of all the systems in the Discovery, so far the audio/video system disappoints and irritates the most - the rest, thus far (we've only owned it for a month), seem to be acceptable, although there have been a few head scratching moments.

Our KVH 5RSL antenna has a "dual output" LNB, which will feed two receivers. We received a nice, leather satchel full of all the manufacturer's manuals when we bought the coach, but what is missing is the system integration description from Fleetwood as to how it's all put together. I consider this to be a glaring omission in providing information to the customer so there is an understanding of how the overall coach works.

More to come - I've contacted Fleetwood and hope to hear from them about this issue...

[pagosajoe]

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

First if you get a Dome (Needed if you want in-motion) All domes are ONE LNB, may be a single or a double, (Depends on the LNB) but there is only one. The nature of domes is that's all folks.. Now a dual LNB can run 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 Receivers (With the proper switch) but a single runs only one. TWO LNBs (Dish 500 for example) is a TWIN.

As for the switching.... I will assume you have a box of many buttons... Can you better describe the issue.. I'm guessing your sat receiver is high def, and has HDMI out and the switcher only switches RF, not HDMI. If that is the case there is a "Work Around". At least I think there is,, Need to research it myself.

I did find a converter in the UK but nothing here in the states.. And of course you may loose HD when you convert. Converter may be called a Modulator.. Only units in the US I have found did not do HDMI.

Thanks for the input. Yup - we would be happy with being able to have the R5SL dual output be able to feed the appropriate TV sets on the Discovery, however, it seems that there is a limitation because Fleetwood did not provide a way to do so. A 2x4 HDMI switch would have allowed that to happen.

Our Dish receiver is the KVH recommended/certified 211K that outputs a single signal, not dual like our home 622 and 722 models. That in itself is not a problem. The fact that the HDMI output of the 211K COULD have been sent to a 2x4 HDMI switch and one signal sent to all 4 (conspicuous consumption at it's finest) HDTV sets on board is the issue. Sounds like poor planning to me. Systems integration in anticipation of the customer's need should have allowed this to be done.

There are two separate 1x2 HDMI switches for audio/video that route the 211K signal. The problem is that I can get the signal to appear on the overhead TV, but not on any other, such as the living room/bedroom external TV.

Still working on it....

[pagosajoe]

Originally Posted by RonK

Don't think your the only one with A/V problems with Fleetwood coaches. Our 2011 AC Revolution has a JUMBLE of HDMI, composite, component, and coaxial cables everywhere and I haven't found anyone who has ever been able to tell me what is what. I have the mid TV working well and the front TV good, but the back TV not so good and the outside TV who knows. It takes us ~15 minutes to get a DVD to play on the galley TV by turning the TV off/on, the DVD player off/on multiple times before it will work. AND, whats with all the infrared sensors at each location. Ours don't do ANYTHING!! Very frustrating to say the least!! If anyone has any solution I'd really, really appreciate it. Sure glad I have a 35 year background in electronics or I'd really be lost. Oh, yea about that Clarion radio... don't get me started on that one! Other than that, we love our coach!!

Hi Ron,

Sounds like a persistent and perplexing problem with Fleetwood. We too have the jumble of cables, HDMI switch boxes and such, and one of the VERY frustrating issues I have is that NONE of the cables are labeled. Sure would be nice to know where each cable goes.

I've been an amateur radio operator and licensed for 50+ years. I'm also retired from the USAF and one of my many job titles was chief of engineering plans and programs. Not labeling cables/connections contributes to the extended labor required to resolve issues, causing customers to end up paying more to get things done. No excuse, Fleetwood. This is one of those times when I would be taking it back to the dealer if I weren't familiar with the electronics involved.

As you said, "...other than that, we love our coach!!"

Still checking....

[pagosajoe]

I received a call from Fleetwood customer service, and an offer to send me the engineering drawings of the Discovery Audio Video system, which I quickly accepted. As part of our discussion, I was informed that Fleetwood designed the A/V system to require TWO satellite TV receivers, one in the forward electronics bay, and one in the bedroom.

The purpose, I was told, is to allow customers to watch two different channels at the same time, although it must be the same channel in the living room area, and the same channel in the bedroom and on the exterior TV.

Customers, he said, told Fleetwood that this is what they wanted. Well...that may have been the case - in 2005! I checked the engineering drawings, and they are dated mid-2005! No changes since then to accommodate changes in satellite and switching technology. Sheesh.

My idea of using a 2x4 HDMI switcher/multiplexer won't work as far as I can tell. There is NO electronics link between the two A/V systems (front bay and bedroom). As a result, you MUST have a second receiver...and pay twice the cost for the receiver and twice the cost for programming. Fleetwood - what were you thinking?? This is what your customers told you they wanted?

It also turns out that the cabling in the front electronics bay was NOT connected as per the engineering drawings - could this be because the cables were not labeled? We certainly wouldn't want clarity in this situation.

I've attached the engineering drawing (both PDF and image) for our 2012 Discovery 36J for those interested in perusing it. If you see something I missed, and find a way to link one receiver to all TV sets, please let me know.

Otherwise, I'm getting ready to order a second Dish 211K receiver and yield to Fleetwood's inept engineering approach to audio/video installation in their "flagship" coach. And I'd love to send the bill to Fleetwood.

Again, there is NO systems integration explanation/overview of how the A/V system was designed, nor any systems requirements available to the customer in the description and specifications on this coach.

The dealer didn't know about the need for two satellite receivers either, although they have been wonderful to work with.

[Tha_Rooster]

I must be missing something I can watch sat on any of my 3 tv's and I have a separate sat. receiver also in the back bedroom to watch what I want. If you could not change inputs how could you watch sat. or cable or ant. on any of the sets.

[pagosajoe]

Originally Posted by Tha_Rooster

I must be missing something I can watch sat on any of my 3 tv's and I have a separate sat. receiver also in the back bedroom to watch what I want. If you could not change inputs how could you watch sat. or cable or ant. on any of the sets.

Fleetwood designed the installation to require the second satellite receiver. That receiver provides the "second" channel for the bedroom and exterior TV. It functions independently of the front satellite receiver. They are two separate, independent circuits.

The front satellite receiver provides one channel to either the living area TV or the overhead TV. The bedroom satellite receiver provides one (perhaps different) channel to the bedroom TV or the exterior TV.

Because the front and rear TV "circuits" are not connected electronically, you have to have two receivers. You can't change connections as I thought earlier (but was told you could by the dealer) to see TV from the Dish receiver in the front electronics bay on any of the 4 sets using just that one satellite receiver.

The cable/over the air TV antenna also provides TV to the TV sets although I'm not sure it will do so to all 4 sets. I can't check that out - I live in a very small town with no local broadcast station within 200+ miles. And that could be considered a blessing...

[wa8yxm]

This is not, specifically a Fleetwood story since it's a Damon story but when I got mine some of the video functions were strange, I could not, for example, watch DVD using the A/V input on the main TV (only chan 3 or chan 4 via the lossy modulator)

Finally i got ye old round tuit and discovered.. THEY HOOKED IT UP WRONG, moved the cable.. all good now.

[Coached]

ON ours:

- front receiver feeds salon and overhead tv
- bedroom receiver feeds bedroom and outside tv
Both are connected to our satellite; if we want all four TV's to play the same satellite station we simply put both receivers on the same station if, however, one wants to watch the football game outside and a soap opera inside, you can
Having had a large coach which did not allow this choice infuriated me so I absolutely believe Fleetwood "listened to their customers" - how much does a receiver cost you?

- cable tv input feeds all four tv's simultaneously and provides for each tv (sony bravia in our coach) to automatically scan and load all channels - all four tv's can be on different stations

- antennae allows for the same options / capability of cable

Now, having said this I do agree with posters that it is incredibly complex to understand if you don't have help.
The salon TV "drives" everything it seems and it does require allot studying of manuals to set up.
We have our salon TV on hdmi 4 for satellite while the front overhead uses "component 1" for the same signal? Blue Ray plays on hdmi on both sets.

The bedroom dvd (sony) player drives the tv bedroom on hdmi and the outside tv on component, with an audio connection to the sony dvd / reciever mounted in the storage compartment, under the tv

Ideally, take the coach to AC and have them set it up for you - they will do that. Failing that, ask to speak with one of the techs who does it as they really are quite knowledgeable and will help you out.
Do you have an "Owner Relations Manager" assigned to you? Revolution is now AC and they assigned one of these Gentlemen to us (Larry Rodgers) - he is our "go to" Guy for everything and, theoretically, will stay with us for the duration of our ownership. This arrangement is working quite well.
See if you have one of these folks and if not ask for one, then ask for guidance on your setup.
It is all there but it is very complex I know. Once you get it set up it's great however.
Good luck.

[pagosajoe]

Originally Posted by Coached

ON ours:

- front receiver feeds salon and overhead tv
- bedroom receiver feeds bedroom and outside tv
Both are connected to our satellite; if we want all four TV's to play the same satellite station we simply put both receivers on the same station if, however, one wants to watch the football game outside and a soap opera inside, you can
Having had a large coach which did not allow this choice infuriated me so I absolutely believe Fleetwood "listened to their customers" - how much does a receiver cost you?

- cable tv input feeds all four tv's simultaneously and provides for each tv (sony bravia in our coach) to automatically scan and load all channels - all four tv's can be on different stations

- antennae allows for the same options / capability of cable

Now, having said this I do agree with posters that it is incredibly complex to understand if you don't have help.
The salon TV "drives" everything it seems and it does require allot studying of manuals to set up.
We have our salon TV on hdmi 4 for satellite while the front overhead uses "component 1" for the same signal? Blue Ray plays on hdmi on both sets.

The bedroom dvd (sony) player drives the tv bedroom on hdmi and the outside tv on component, with an audio connection to the sony dvd / reciever mounted in the storage compartment, under the tv

Ideally, take the coach to AC and have them set it up for you - they will do that. Failing that, ask to speak with one of the techs who does it as they really are quite knowledgeable and will help you out.
Do you have an "Owner Relations Manager" assigned to you? Revolution is now AC and they assigned one of these Gentlemen to us (Larry Rodgers) - he is our "go to" Guy for everything and, theoretically, will stay with us for the duration of our ownership. This arrangement is working quite well.
See if you have one of these folks and if not ask for one, then ask for guidance on your setup.
It is all there but it is very complex I know. Once you get it set up it's great however.
Good luck.

Hi Tony,

Thanks for your perspective. It's nice to hear from someone who has been there/done that. After reviewing the engineering drawings of the A/V system on the 2012 Discovery, it appears that the way you've described it, is how it should function.

However, this is what appears in the 2012 Discovery owners manual, page 10-3:

Video Control Center

The video control center, located in the front overhead, allows routing of the antenna, cable, satellite or DVD signals to both the front and rear TV's independent of each other.

Although Fleetwood states that signals may be routed to both the front and rear TV's independent of each other, that does not appear possible in compliance with the engineering drawings. For example, in our 2012 Discovery, how can the DVD signal from the front Sony Home Theater DVD be seen in the rear of the coach? There is no electronic connection between the two areas and associated TV sets from what I see in the engineering drawings.

The point is that Fleetwood (and apparently other manufacturers) doesn't/don't disclose this or educate owners/potential owners on how their system works - it's an obvious problem that has been ongoing for quite a few years. Fleetwood's owners manual information doesn't accurately portray how the system works.

A dual satellite receiver and appropriate multiplexer/HDMI switcher would resolve this problem, allowing different channels to be seen on the TV sets.

[SarahW]

Good luck, Joe. I agree that Fleetwood's documentation (manuals, etc.) is sorely lacking for many of the onboard systems. I don't know what newbies would do without a resource like this forum. Very frustrating.