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11-18-2014, 07:02 PM
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#15
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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If you can get to the terminals a Voltmeter will be your friend. It's a matter of working through the chain of contacts from the ignition switch or whatever the source is through the chain to the relay control post. Measure to ground. The 12 V nominal will be at the first terminal and disappear somewhere down the chain. Tapping on the relay's jars a stuck/dirty contact into working. Sometimes selective tapping can also show the bad relay. Good luck, they are a PITA to deal with.
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11-18-2014, 08:25 PM
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#16
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spritz
We had similar, Fried a battery, bought the year before, They (store) replaced it N/C,
Interesting to hear your problem.
Tim
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Batteries have all been tested with a Snapon battery tester
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildirishman
I had a simular issue and it was the 200 amp fuse. It was located under near the engine. I followed the wiring from the chasis battery. If I remember right there are a couple of them inline. Goodluck to you!
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I do believe it is this fuse or the secondary solenoid, I just cannot find them
Quote:
Originally Posted by terry735001
relay and fuse you cant find may be on the back side of the motor on top of the trans
if you see some 3/0 or 4.0 wiring going on top of the trans ... very hard to see then its on top
this was installed this way on some RV when there was no bays installed and the RV need to be moved around befo the body of the RV was ever installed
just guessing here but i have seen a few like that
all so i seen some one post and showed pics of a 200 amp fuse installed in the frame like you are talking next to the motor from the under side of the RV in the motor bay
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I will look when I get home
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
Since we are all guessing--my "guess" is that the secondary solenoid [the one that provides power to the primary solenoid on the starter, the one that is activated by the ignition key] has gone bad. Probably looks like an old ford/chevy continuous use, four-post solenoid, located near the battery or mechanical compartments.....About $25 at NAPA, about $12 on Amazon.
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I agree, fuse or solenoid, just cannot find it
Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRA225
I agree ! Chase the small wire from the starter solenoid back to the remote start pre solenoid most likely located somewhere in or close to the engine compartment . mine took a dump in a rest area and I jumped the starter and left it running 300 miles to home. Everything else functioned normally on the trip home.
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Yes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arch Hoagland
Exact same problem on my gas coach six days ago. Acted like a slide was open which, on mine, will cause those symptoms.
Couldn't find any sensing switches on the slide outs that would act as interlocks.
I went to the 12 volt electronics control module and checked some of the slide fuses, banged on the two slide out relays and all the others too.
Eventually after more tapping and banging it started.
We are on a cross country trip from California to Florida and back and I worried the same problem will occur again as I didn't find anything concrete to cause the problem.
But my thought is that it has something to do with the ignition lockout that occurs if the slides are out or the jacks aren't retracted.
I was sitting in Texas when my problem occurred and we had to be in Florida for a cruise this Friday so I was making plans to drive the toad to Texas when the engine mysteriously started.
Let us know what you find, I'd really be interested in knowing.
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I will, hope you do not have any more problems
Quote:
Originally Posted by nothermark
If you can get to the terminals a Voltmeter will be your friend. It's a matter of working through the chain of contacts from the ignition switch or whatever the source is through the chain to the relay control post. Measure to ground. The 12 V nominal will be at the first terminal and disappear somewhere down the chain. Tapping on the relay's jars a stuck/dirty contact into working. Sometimes selective tapping can also show the bad relay. Good luck, they are a PITA to deal with.
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I like a test light in this situation. I do agree.
We connected a remote rear start switch.
Connected to the fuse panel a fuse that runs to a key switch which then runs to the key terminal on the starter.
Turn the dash key to on, turn the remote key to start and the starter engages and engine runs as it should.
drove 250 to Richman hill KOA Ga. All functioned as it should
currently 37 degrees and is supposed to go to 22. Now I am concerned about winterization. We are heading to Rochester ny
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11-19-2014, 05:38 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,742
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Glen,
Your a Macgyver kind of guy ! Glad to hear your moving and yes it's cold up here.
When you get home check this thread >http://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cumm...ic-179725.html , same issues your having.
Safe Travels
This may be of some help too.
__________________
Chuck
Brownsburg Indiana
1992 American Eagle-8.3C-450hp
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11-19-2014, 05:51 AM
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#18
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRA225
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Yep, I have to find the secondary solenoid and the 200 amp fuse
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11-19-2014, 06:15 AM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 7,396
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If the engine will run after a starter jump --its not the 200 amp fuse; stick with the secondary solenoid as the probable cause. Dont follow the large bat cables coming from the starter, most starters are hot wired directly to the bats, and the secondary solenoid is used via a much smaller 10g wire to activate the primary solenoid on the starter. Look on the reverse bulkheads surrounding the bat or mechcanical compartments--but just guessing on location......
__________________
Old Scout
2015 IH45 Foretravel
2003 Alpine 40' MDTS [Sold]
New Braunfels, Texas
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11-19-2014, 06:39 PM
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#20
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Scout
If the engine will run after a starter jump --its not the 200 amp fuse; stick with the secondary solenoid as the probable cause. Dont follow the large bat cables coming from the starter, most starters are hot wired directly to the bats, and the secondary solenoid is used via a much smaller 10g wire to activate the primary solenoid on the starter. Look on the reverse bulkheads surrounding the bat or mechcanical compartments--but just guessing on location......
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This may wait to spring now
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11-23-2014, 10:05 AM
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#21
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Now that I am home I have access to my home desktop computer and I also have access to the wiring diagrams that Gillig has sent to me.
It indicates the elusive secondary starter solenoid is in the rear electrical panel, bot the battery control box. Now that I am not fixated on the battery control box, maybe I can find the rear electrical box?????
While perusing the Gillig wiring diagram I also found a Neutral Relay, in what they call the Front Electrical Panel, now all I have to do is find that Panel also.
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11-23-2014, 10:13 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: michigan-tip of the mitt
Posts: 1,444
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Had this prob. My secondary solenoid was in the compartment under the drivers window in front of the wheel. If solenoid make sure you get a CONTINUOUS DUTY solenoid. A starter solenoid will burn out in short order. Sometimes minutes sometimes hours.
Good luck.
__________________
2003 Class C, 29' Gulfstream
Next stop?
Previous rigs..2 Pickup campers,2 TT's, 3 DP MH's
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11-25-2014, 02:23 PM
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#23
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Ok guys....here is the solution to the problem.
I sent a request to American Coach as to the location of the relay, and received this rely.
Glenn,
The rear Gillig panel is located under the bed. Open the bed, then the engine access. The Gillig components you show are under there.
The front panel is under the hood in the front.
Hope that helps.
Deb Merritt
So... I went and looked and this is what I found. Sorry for the quality of the picture, it was dark out and I was lighting with a flashlight.
The elusive relay is found! under the bed on the forward baldhead in the engine compartment.
Had my wife turning and holding the key to start position and I used a test light to see if I had power from the key.
Off the nut holding the wires in place I did not, moved the probe to the eyelets of the wire connector and wiggled, the light came on and the engine surprised us and cranked.
Removed the nuts, cleaned all the wire eyelets with Emory paper and the engine now cranks for the dash again, no parts required.
Good Sam road service for four hours of work, they did not find the relay nor did they solve the problem ($500.00), just a work around, which did get us home.
There is a diode between the two terminals that is not in the wiring diagram, ideas on it purpose?
When the weather warms up I will do a complete cleaning of this area, I will also clean up the remote start that the road service installed. I would also like to have it so the engine can also be killed from the remote switch, I will have to think on that.
Turely, thanks for all your help.
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11-25-2014, 02:50 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,402
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The diode suppresses high voltage spikes caused by the expanding and collapsing magnetic field when the key is turned to the start position and then when the key returns to the run position another spike is possible. Isn't it amazing how troublesome a simple loose nut can be? Using the test light was an excellent choice and NOT just pushing and pulling on wires which would not have been as conclusive as the test indicated.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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10-03-2018, 05:17 PM
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#25
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Plano Tx
Posts: 7
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If you don't mind me asking, what year is your coach and is it a American Dream?
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10-03-2018, 08:13 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 410
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJones041400
If you don't mind me asking, what year is your coach and is it a American Dream?
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It is a 97 American Dream....
__________________
2003 Pace Arrow 34W, F-53 V-10 22,000#, 5-Star, Avg 7.7 MPG, ScanGauge II, 540 Watt Solar
WiFiRanger Elite Pack, WeBoost 4G-X, Voltage Booster, Progressive Industries EMS
Water Softener, Safe-T-Plus, Koni, Centramatic Balancers, CHF, Rear Trac Bar, EEZ TPMS
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10-03-2018, 08:21 PM
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#27
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New to the RV World
Vintage RV Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 3,092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MJones041400
If you don't mind me asking, what year is your coach and is it a American Dream?
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1997 American Dream on a Gillig chassis.
Shutting down now and will be gone for a couple of days, moving
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10-05-2018, 06:19 AM
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#28
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,563
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If the ignition circuit cannot verify that the tranny is in neutral, it won't engage to solenoid for cranking. Could it be the the wire that carries the "in neutral" signal is damaged?
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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