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Old 04-16-2019, 06:00 AM   #393
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Breather tube location: Valve Cover on top - Flywheel end- drops down on the right side looking from the rear of the Coach.
Just a Rubber Hose with a Hose clamp
Yes the Moroso 85465 is the one I have installed. Check the seal on your dipstick as well as the Breather-IE Slobber Tube Hose.
Something to remember -- These Old 8.3's have a higher amount of Blowby than Cats, therefore puking a few ounces of Oil and a Vapor mist is Not uncommon at all.
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Old 04-16-2019, 12:14 PM   #394
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Crankcase Vent (Slobber Tube)

Here is what I have found so far...

The top of the valve cover, as viewed from above (beneath the bed):



If I have this correct, underneath all of that sludge should be the crankcase vent. There is a short piece of rubber hose that connects it to steel tubing that runs across the valve cover then down towards the ground. Somewhere, out of sight, a piece of rubber hose connects to the tubing and points downward.

The end of the slobber tube:



There is some sludge behind this area from discharge from the vent while driving down the road. The coach has a side radiator, on the other side of the rig, so radiator fin clogging from the tube is not an issue.



Based on Chuck's photo, here is a possible location for the breather tank on the side of the rail on my coach:





Moving the camera further away, for an overall view, the potential tank location is, from the front of the coach backwards, behind the air dryer, in front of the fuel/water separator bracket, and attached to the vertical side of the frame rail. The exhaust pipe leading to the muffler is somewhat close, but I think far enough away to not cause heat issues. In the photo, the exhaust pipe is partially blocking the view of the location I have in mind.




Before I destroy something accidentally...

How is the crankcase vent removed?

Once I clean the sludge off the area, it may or may not become readily apparent.

Is the crankcase vent on the top of the valve cover a maintenance item? Should it be replaced at regular intervals?


Searching a bit online for 1991 parts leads me to some "crankcase breather caps" that appear to simply push into a rubber grommet in the valve cover. One photo looked like the cap pushed in then was rotated to lock two tabs in place.




RELATED SLUDGE ISSUE.

DIPSTICK Discharge???

Going back to an issue I mentioned a while back, there is a lot of oil and dirt sludge near the top of the dipstick tube. Here is an earlier photo:



The radiator overflow tank is almost completely covered in black sludge. I cleaned some of it off for this photo.




After much iRV2 reading, I am beginning to believe that a few things might be happening here.

1) The dipstick may not be calibrated properly. Someone added a bit of red rubber hose to keep the stick from going in to far, essentially changing the location of the "Add" and "Full" marks.

2) The dipstick may be getting blown out by crankcase pressure. Possibly the crankcase vent and/or tubing is blocked. In turn the air pressure is pushing the dipstick out and oil-mist filled crankcase fumes are escaping through the dipstick tube and coating everything in the immediate area. I do mean "everything"!

3) Maybe the crankcase vent/tube is working properly, however a little bit of air pressure and/or road vibration pushes the stick upwards. The red tubing may have been a way to keep the stick in place, but it is now so covered in oil that the stick moves anyway.


My thoughts are to add the tank to the crankcase vent. During that installation I will check for blockage in the vent and/or tubing.




At the moment I have the coolant overflow tank removed. This is allowing better sludge removal from that area. (As previously mentioned, more on the overflow tank to come...)
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:22 PM   #395
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Your engine has a open crankcase system. There's no filter or "vent" basically a baffle under the rocker cover with a open clear hose the runs the crankcase "air" (blowby) down and away from the engine. That's the rubber hose you see by oil pan.

From looking at your pics, I would spray it all down with purple power or the like and power wash it off. If you want, remove the vent hose at rocker cover and check/clean it out.
Engine should be ran under load to see if/how much blow by you really have.
These vintage engines have some blow by as normal.
The catch can deal will help contain it.

I used a fleetguard item, a open crankcase vent system that catches the oil in the blow by and drains it back into crankcase. I had a pretty hefty amount of blow by, and I his system has contained the oil completely.

Also key is having correct oil level any overfill will make a mess..
Best practices are drain oil, refill using Cummins spec (in quickserve ) then see where level reads on dipstick. This is your "corrected" oi level.

The catch can deal works great, and there's many here the fasten a water bottle to the hose. But if you have more than just minimum amount of blow by, they must be emptied often.

This fleetguard system puts it back in crankcase 100% maintenance free.

My best advice is clean it all up, make sure oil level is correct and run it. Then check for blow by and leaks
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Old 04-16-2019, 03:29 PM   #396
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Open crankcase systemClick image for larger version

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Old 04-16-2019, 03:34 PM   #397
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.... duplicate
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File Type: pdf CV50116.pdf (573.4 KB, 10 views)
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:54 AM   #398
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I looked at Mac's Fleetguard system way back when He installed it and decided that mine was sufficient and seemed to work for me.
Quote>Before I destroy something accidentally...

How is the crankcase vent removed? There is aBaffle fixture installed on the Valve cover- Never had mine off.

Once I clean the sludge off the area, it may or may not become readily apparent.

Is the crankcase vent on the top of the valve cover a maintenance item? Should it be replaced at regular intervals? Have never touched mine with the exception of installing my Puke tank Line.


Searching a bit online for 1991 parts leads me to some "crankcase breather caps" that appear to simply push into a rubber grommet in the valve cover. One photo looked like the cap pushed in then was rotated to lock two tabs in place. I'd skip any thoughts on installing a Breather Cap on your valve cover, I suggest to just change the Rubber Hose with new when you decide which tank you'll be using.

As Mac Mentioned, I'd really Clean that whole Compartment with a heavy de-greaser. Your dip stick!-- Someone realized something along the way, I think to overfilling the Oil. As I've mentioned in previous post My Engine calls for 22 qts with filter change and that puts my dipstick over the full mark and tend to puke far more than normal. I now put in 20qts with filter and it hardly pukes any at all.
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Old 04-17-2019, 07:42 PM   #399
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The system NHRA225 is using is good. I had more than average blow by.
Before I purchased it, My coach had sit for 8 years and only been started a few times. I had enough blow by that I was certain it would need in frame overhaul. A buddy of mine works for Cummins told me to try the fleetguard system. They install it often on generators that are in enclosed buildings. It solved my oil blowing out, and the longer I've ran engine, the less blowby I seem to have.

Basically same idea as the catch can, but mine returns the oil to the crankcase

I'm also suspect of oil level.
Mine also holds 20 quarts
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Old 04-21-2019, 12:26 PM   #400
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Coolant Overflow Tank

As promised...

I've mentioned the main engine coolant overflow tank a few times. Now, here's the story.

Previously I had replaced the overflow tube that ran from the top of the radiator to the overflow tank. Part of it simply crumbled away near the radiator. (Replacement documented previously in this discussion.)

What I did not do at that time was add any fluid to the tank. Since I did not know what type of coolant was in the radiator, and not wanting to cause any problems, I left it empty. I also decided not to add clear water in case the tank froze.

Well, a week or two ago, as I was contemplating getting closer for a test run of the coach, I decided to add clear water just in case the radiator level was low. If the engine got hot, and needed more fluid, it should pull it from the overflow tank as the engine cooled. (At least, that is my understanding.) So, I added distilled water.

Here is the result.



The yellow arrow is pointing to a steady stream of the water I just added.

NOTE: The rest of the story is how I replaced the tank. This may or may not be of much interest, unless you need to do this. Feel free to skip to the end.


So, time to remove and repair or replace the tank. There are three bolts that hold the tank in place. One is a self-tapping bolt that is visible in the above photo. The bracket for the engine cover piston does need to be loosened since the bracket was installed after the tank was in place. The other two bolts have nylock nuts on the backside. Of course, they were all covered in the same sludge as I mentioned previously.

After some contortions around the engine, bracket, and underneath the "house" above, the tank was removed.

If you notice on the front of the tank, a MOPAR symbol and part number are molded into the tank. I was able to search online and found a used tank on ebay. It was advertised for a 1980's OEM Dodge Truck. At first, I only found one and quickly ordered it. I did find another one later on a Spanish-speaking website. But, I already had one on order.


Here is a photo of the new (used) tank and the broken tank (after I cleaned LOTS of sludge off of it). The yellow arrows point to the two long cracks on the bottom of the bad tank. It almost looks like something flew up from underneath and hit the tank bottom real hard. Given its location, I am not sure quite how that might have happened. But, broken is broken.




After removing the old tank, I was able to clean a lot more sludge in the area. The yellow arrows point to the three mounting holes. The left two holes are simply that: holes. A 1/4" bolt with washers and a nylock nut goes in each one to hold the tank in place. The right hole is for a self-tapping bolt (no nut). I was able to re-use the old bolts, some of the washers, and replaced the nylock nuts.




Here is the new-to-me tank installed. The yellow arrow points to the one bracket bolt that had to be removed so the tank could slip in place. The other three bolts on the bracket had to be loosened, but not removed. The shiny metal piece that is parallel to the arrow, and ends on the bracket, is one of the two pistons that hold the engine "hood" in the open position.





I did not add water yet. I still do not know what type of antifreeze is in the radiator. I am not sure where to look to figure it out. If I open a drain valve, and it gets stuck open, well, then I have another mess. For now I will leave everything alone. And, keep an eye on the temperature gauge when I take it for a test run (hopefully soon?).

I am also thinking about flushing and replacing the fluid with a lifetime coolant that requires NO additives. Part of this change includes replacing the water filter with a plain one (Fleetguard WF2077).

The major issue is TIME. There are so many things I want to do to the coach, and still keep my day job.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:40 AM   #401
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Hi CWK!

Good job. I find these tanks just get old from the heat and crack. No flying objects involved.

I think the coolant flush/change is a good idea.

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Old 04-22-2019, 10:38 AM   #402
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Agree with Lloyd on the coolant flush and replacement. If you are going to do that adding distilled water to the tank will not hurt you.

Couple things.
It will be there so any low level in the coolant will be replaced when the engine cools. Having the coolant full will be good if you end up running again before the replacement.

Will help identify if there are any other leaks prior to incurring the expense of the flush and replacement.

Helped Lloyd plastic weld the overflow on Tim's Pace Arrow. Torch and the plastic lid from an ice cream pail. Last we heard the welded tank was still doing it job.
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Old 04-23-2019, 05:33 PM   #403
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Best Coolant Iíve ever used - 100,000 miles
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:12 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon Dewald View Post
Couple things.
It will be there so any low level in the coolant will be replaced when the engine cools. Having the coolant full will be good if you end up running again before the replacement.

Will help identify if there are any other leaks prior to incurring the expense of the flush and replacement.
Gordon, Thanks. With a COLD engine, I also added about 1.5 gallons of distilled water at the radiator cap until it was full. I wonder how much overflowed onto the ground when the overflow tube was rotted away. I replaced the tube last year, but did not notice the broken tank until recently. The coach has not been on any trips, so overheating while driving was never an issue; yet!

Each day I am running the engine for about 10 minutes to warm it up, then letting it cool overnight. After a few days maybe I will see the overflow tank level go down? Or, maybe I have enough coolant and water in the system now.


Chuck, Yup. That is exactly what I was thinking: Final Charge.


Well onto the next issues. There are two separate topics, so I will add each in its own post. I'm trying to keep the documentation of this "work in progress" somewhat organized and readable.
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Old 04-25-2019, 01:40 PM   #405
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Rear License Plate Bracket w/ LED Light

In my efforts to reduce the electrical load on the coach (both chassis and house), I am replacing the incandescent bulbs with LEDs wherever possible.

The bulb in the license plate bracket has a wedge base. I have a suitable replacement, but the receptacle is so worn that the LED bulb would not stay in place. Replacing the original bulb did not work either. After being disturbed, it would not stay in place either.

So, the simplest (at least in theory) thing was to simply replace the entire bracket with an LED fixture as part of the bracket. Bracket w/LED cost was about $10.

Here are some photos to describe the process.

Original bracket is held in place with two rivets, one to either side of the light. They drilled out easily.




New bracket is connected with crimped, water-proof (heat-shrink) connectors after first checking polarity to see if white-to-white and black-to-black was really true. (On my 1996 Travel Trailer, the selling dealer changed the broken rear brake/tail light fixtures connecting the same colors together. However, the manufacturer of the new fixture had the wiring colors backward! The tail light was very bright. And, the signals/brakes lit the dimmer filament on the 1157 bulb. I had to figure it out and change it in a wally-world parking lot on the 400 mile ride home before it got dark. )




Electrical tape wrapped around the new connectors.




There was enough of the original wire loom behind the shell to cover the new wiring. A bit of electrical tape around the end of the loom should keep it in place.




Fixture attached to the coach with two Small head, black, aluminum, tri-fold, 3/16" rivets that aligned perfectly with the original holes in the fiberglass shell.





Relatively simple project. It took much more time to source some of the parts, since I did not have everything in stock. Also took time to bring out the tools: drill, drill bit, wire cutters, wire strippers, wire crimpers, heat gun, extension cord, screwdriver, pliers, rivet gun, etc., then put them away.


Oh, yes. I just checked... the license plate light works.
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Old 04-25-2019, 02:17 PM   #406
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Extra Ground wire(s)????

I have mentioned some electrical issues the coach has which may be attributable to a bad ground. Here are a few:

1) Speedometer/odometer not working. Well, it did move the odometer 0.1 miles during one of its short trips.

2) About 6-7VDC, instead of 12VDC, at the rear, top marker lights.

3) Alternator does not seem to kick in for 30-60 seconds after the main engine is started and running.

4) Marker lights near the rear of the coach "flash" (bright to weak to bright...) when the turn signals or 4-way flashers are active.


During my up-close-and-personal travels, around, under, over, and behind the engine area, I discovered a wire that appears to be cut off and leading to nowhere. It looks like a 16 ga. wire. I was hunting for the slobber tube at the time, and saw the wire. Today, I decided to slide back underneath and take some photos.

What I saw kind of amazed me. At times I wonder how this old coach kept on running down the road in spite of all of the issues I have found.

Anyway, this is one of the new items that I discovered today. It appears to be 1 ga. wire. That seems to match some wiring sizes that are on the electrical schematic I have.

I am attaching a wiring diagram that Spartan gave me (PDF format). It may or may not be the exact diagram for my coach, but it is the closest one that they could find when I talked to them last year. Given that the coach was manufactured by Fleetwood in 3/91, the 12/14/90 chassis diagram is probably pretty accurate.


Actually, there are two unconnected wires in the photo taken from underneath the coach. I moved the ends a bit so they can be seen in the photo, but they were NOT connected or really touching anything. Maybe the heavy ground end would rub up against the metal frame while driving, or maybe not.





Climbing around some more, I found the other end of the heavy wire attached to a bracket on the engine. Note that this is not the same as a ground to the chassis frame. In the first photo one can see a metal wheel in the lower left corner of the photo. I am guessing that this wheel is an assembly aid to remove and replace the engine?

Anyway, the arrow at the right in the photo shows where the heavy gauge wire is connected.

The arrow on the left shows two wires that come out of the "front" of the alternator and are routed towards the rear of the coach. One of the wires splits off and heads upward toward a wiring harness that starts to run forward. The other wire loops back down and ends with the broken wire in the first photo. I have yet to find another piece of broken wire. More up-close-and-personal time will probably be required to find it.





Page TWO of the attached PDF has an enlarged view of the alternator area of the schematic. There are a number of wires that are Ground wires (alternator, starter, start relay, Speedo Generator, that connect at a "J" BLOCK.
What is a "J" BLOCK?

Where should these wires be connected?

Is this the possible solution for all of the above-mentioned electrical issues?
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