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WallHaxx · 04-07-2017, 07:31 PM

I really hope someone can help me fix this.

My fiance and I recently bought a 1983 Pace Arrow to be our full time home. We paid $2300 for it with the knowledge of several problems. That ballooned to about $3300 after we had to have it towed a hundred miles to our town after discovering it didn't shift out of first gear and then suffered an ignition issue and died at 25 mph as we were trying to get to a place to regroup.

We plan on placing it somewhere within a few miles of here and living in it for some time so the transmission is not our number one issue. We will be saving to get it fixed. The ignition started working again after fiddling with it but I plan on replacing it anyway.

The big problem we are having right now is with the living space. There are a great many systems that seem to be disconnected or inoperative, mainly related to the electrical. The owners before us were trashy and didn't seem to know what they were doing at all and the owners before them were french canadian and seemed to know just enough to make my life hell. The batteries are severely miswired, many fuses were wrong, all the labels are french, they seem to have bypassed and jury-rigged a lot of systems, and it seems like fleetwood may have done work on it as well. The fridge looks like it was placed and never hooked up, but I did manage to get it to turn on after putting the right fuses in the right spots.

The biggest problem seems to be under the hood. The battery wiring is FUBAR. There were three batteries originally, but the starter battery died and the last owner wired the house batteries up to start it too. Then, when we were looking at it, it wouldn't start so we went and bought a starter battery to test it and it worked. The guy had trouble getting all three back in so he just put one house battery in. I was a little worried, but it started and ran and we were getting desperate, so we bought it. (mind you, I've learned a lot in that short time)

Here's what I know so far: There is an original isolator solenoid with both sides connected to the chassis battery positive.

Then there's a newer style isolator (I think. Could be a desulfator?) connected to wires that disappear behind everything. And there's a ton of wires hooked up to everything. Initially, the converter charging indicator was lit continuously with everything off and the rv unplugged and the batteries were losing charge (charging themselves?) but it went off after I moved the fuses.

I don't have a lot of money to throw at a mechanic or rv place (plus it don't move much) so I'm trying to do as much of this as I can on my own. I have a good idea of what a simple rv isolator setup should look like but there are so many unknowns here that I have no hope of un-screwing this without help. I have a volt meter but I have know idea where to even start with this mess.

I could keep going but I'll just post the pics and hope you lovely people can get me pointed in the right direction.

Just look at this nightmare.

I don't know if this french diagram helps.

WallHaxx · 04-08-2017, 02:03 PM

Really? Nothing? Is it that bad? Can anybody suggest anything?

And just to update, I now seem to have no DC power at all. I don't know why. I checked all the fuses I moved. Everything seems to be right and working, the converter has power at the leads to the battery, but nothing works now. >_<

jrbuck2 · 04-08-2017, 02:39 PM

Your situation is way too complex to get much solution through a forum. You need a knowledgeable friend near where you are parked. Since your priority is shelter, more than travel, I would say to focus your attention on the "house" electrical systems first. You want to have a strong 12 volt system, battery recharge working, inverter to make some 115V AC, hot water, etc. Since you know system basics, you might want to start each item from scratch, rewiring as needed. If you pull old wires, you can tie some poly twine to the end. That way you will have a way to pull the new wires back through the same path.

Podivin · 04-08-2017, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jrbuck2

... you might want to start each item from scratch, rewiring as needed. If you pull old wires, you can tie some poly twine to the end. That way you will have a way to pull the new wires back through the same path.

I was thinking somewhat along these same lines, though without necessarily pulling new wires right away.

Find a system or appliance that you want/need to work and trace that one down until you find why it's not working.

Don't go into it trying to fix the entire electrical system all at one time, just work on one thing until it's done, it will likely be less daunting that way (and you'll get small 'wins' along the way, which will give your ego and morale a little boost

).

Start from your batteries, make sure you've got power to the distribution center. If you do then start following a wire to see where it goes (with a little luck some of them are labeled and you know what they are supposed to power).
Or work backward from a light or switch that doesn't work until you find a break or bad connection. At every connection take it apart, clean it, then put it back together. I expect you're going to be fighting corrosion a lot on this one, much of which can be hidden.

There's probably a fuse box somewhere, make sure it has incoming power (I'm thinking 12 volt, but 120 is valid also) and TEST all of the fuses - don't just look at them, test them.

Often an item not working is caused by a bad ground as opposed to know power to it, so check both sides to make sure they are good.

Google knows French, look up the words on some of your labels and then replace that label with it's English equivalent. That alone may give you some idea of what goes where.

Good luck.

Kiawah · 04-08-2017, 03:20 PM

I think what JRBuck suggested is a good approach. Just start with one area, and get that working first.

You could start with the house battery, disconnect all of the wires from it, put a new battery charger / trickle charger on it, and start getting all of your 12vdc house circuits fixed and working the way you need. Once all those 'outputs' are working, then get the 'input' converter (120vac -> 12vdc) feeding the battery instead of the battery charger.

Then focus on the chassis side, use your battery charger/trickle charger, and get all the 12vdc chassis 'output' devices working. Once those are all working, then get the 'input' which is the engine alternator.

At this point, you should have two completely working, but separate systems (house and chassis). Then the last thing to get working is the charge solenoid (or equivalent), which ties the house batteries to the chassis batteries. When the engine is running and typically charging the chassis batteries, it will then also charge the house batteries.

If you are going to have an inverter, get that working using the 12vdc to make 120vac.

Then you use that new battery/trickle charger to keep your chassis batteries maintained, while you are parked wherever you are going to keep it.

WallHaxx · 04-08-2017, 06:34 PM

I have been doing those sorts of tests but I need to keep doing them.
With regards to directly wiring systems to the battery, I've thought about this, but I'm also starting to think it has already been done to some degree.

I have to major problems right now: 1. There are just so many wires that disappear to unknown destinations that I am not confident that I can find the necessary wires and 2. I will need to move her under her own power on or before the 14th of this month to our new place and I'm afraid of rendering her unstartable. Also, the lack of a livable space has put a delay on us getting packed in and settled before the move.
If anyone can help me identify the few leads that I need to start it (starter, alternator, etc.) I would be much more willing to disconnect everything else and start experimenting.

Oh, and I did google translate the diagram but it hasn't helped much. Just a few wire colors and sizes, with many wires currently attached not accounted for. I wish I had some key to the numbers on the wires as well.

SCVJeff · 04-08-2017, 06:51 PM

I had an '85 Pace and I am sure they are very similiar, but with all due respect, if you can't fix these issues yourself and can't afford a mechanic (you really need someone familiar with automotive elect), you shouldn't be in this game. Fleetwood did a supremely lousy job of wiring those coaches with zero documentation. Pictures like that mean nothing because every coach was differently wired up front, including forigen language sketch's. Only suggestion: Get a DVM, learn how to use it and hit the projects one at a time. It's a PITA but there's no reason you can't do it.

WallHaxx · 04-08-2017, 08:33 PM

Is that a Digital Volt Meter? If so, that's what I'm doing and it's only becoming more confusing. Someone definitely rewired some things. There are lamp wires directly connecting some lights to the wiring under the hood. I feel like I'm going insane.

SCVJeff · 04-08-2017, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WallHaxx

Is that a Digital Volt Meter? If so, that's what I'm doing and it's only becoming more confusing. Someone definitely rewired some things. There are lamp wires directly connecting some lights to the wiring under the hood. I feel like I'm going insane.

then that means you're learning.. remember you are chasing HOT wires off the fuse block, not ground. Take one to the battery, walk in and see what works, log it, mark the wire, disconnect, repeat. Don't leave what you already figured out hooked up

Hgrace56 · 04-08-2017, 09:55 PM

From what I can tell from the photos is that it seems every termination is extremely corroded.
Try loosening terminals and testing both sides of each fuse.

WallHaxx · 04-09-2017, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Podivin

I expect you're going to be fighting corrosion a lot on this one, much of which can be hidden.

Ha HA! You can say that again!

I took the grill off and started pulling off conduit and found this.

Best plumber voice: "Well that's yer problem right there"

I must have knocked it loose while I was wiggling wires to trace them. I just can't believe it ever worked like this. I can't see even the tiniest bit of bare copper. But somehow it was working before.

I cut and temporarily reconnected the wires and TADA, we have power!

And I think I'm finally narrowing down what is actually connected to the batteries.
I have to go buy some fuses and terminals tomorrow and start testing to see if I can manually isolate the batteries and still get her to start and run.

I still don't know why the converter says it's charging or what the hell all those disconnected go to, but let's just solve one problem at a time.

SCVJeff · 04-10-2017, 02:41 AM

Looks like you'll be learning to crimp too..

Get a tube of Dielectric and squirt a dab in the new crimps you replace, or buy the proper size of heat shrink, and make sure it's adhesive lined.

twinboat · 04-10-2017, 03:24 AM

That looks like salt water damage your encountering. I'v seen it on boats.

Was this MH submerged during a weather event ?

Dutch Star Don · 04-10-2017, 06:19 AM

"WallHaxx"......Here is my two cents. You initially discussed the battery isolator and it giving you some grief. The purpose of the isolator is to allow your engine to charge both the house batteries and chassis batteries as needed, just not at the same time. In your situation and intended use, I wouldn't worry about the isolator. Make whatever changes you need for the chassis battery to start the engine and the house batteries to power the house. It doesn't sound like you'll be taking any long trips where the engine needs to charge the house batteries. Just eliminate the isolator if it's giving you issues.

I also find for simple things like what you're doing, an old style (cheap) volt meter with an analog gauge, or just a 12 volt test light is simpler to read/see and understand than a digital gauge. I can look from some very awkward positions and see a needle swing versus reading numbers.

Lastly, rather than go through fuses like crazy, buy a couple of automotive circuit breakers of different amperages, like the photo below ($2.00 - $3.00). Attach a couple of feet of wire to both lugs and some alligator clips. Use this to test systems you think you've repaired. If there is still an issue, the circuit breaker will trip until you resolve the issue.

Clean up as much of the crappy wiring and connections and then see what works. Whatever doesn't work, start chasing down by priority.