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Old 09-08-2015, 09:24 AM   #701
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Originally Posted by art_plano View Post
I am the 3rd owner and the coach has always been stored inside. I may fly up there over Thanksgiving to take a look at it. They agreed to store it inside until I can pick it up next spring
You can see some damage in the corner below the rear bumper.
Thanks,
Art
Drivers side rear bumper looks a little twisted. The bumper is easy to remove and you may be able to twist it back (with a lot of leverage)
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Old 09-08-2015, 09:43 AM   #702
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1997 American Dream on Gilig Chassis fan radiator fan runs all the time

Noticed my hydraulic radiator fan is running all the time.

Gillig tells me that there is a sensor to control the fan solenoid.

Gillig sent me a circuit diagram for a 1994 bus with rear battery box an run box (I am a 1996 chassis for a 1997 Motor Home)



The color codes on the wires at the fan solenoid are not correct.



If I feed 12V and ground to the fan soleniod the fan slows down right away, remove the 12 v and it speeds up.

This is the fan solenoid



It control hydraulic pressure to the fan





Gillig supplied the sensor location.



Wire color codes are correct here. But the wires leading into the harness at the fan solenoid are different.

If I supply 12v to the yellow and ground to the black nothing happens.

I have posed these questions to Gillig and to you.


1) Questions
a) Would you locate and send the circuit diagram for my 1997 Motor Home on a 1996 chassis?
Vehicle Vin 46GED1814T1052706
Fleetwood # 720AV5202890
MFD ID # 02890
Chassis date 7/96
b) Is this the correct sensor?
c) I have a trip coming up next week to Bowling Green, can I run the fan all the time?
d) Would you advise me to set up a switch to turn the fan on and off by observing the temperature gauge on the dash until I can figure out what the problem is?
e) Do you have any suggestions on what I should look at?


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Old 09-09-2015, 09:55 AM   #703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennLever View Post
Noticed my hydraulic radiator fan is running all the time.

Gillig tells me that there is a sensor to control the fan solenoid.

Gillig sent me a circuit diagram for a 1994 bus with rear battery box an run box (I am a 1996 chassis for a 1997 Motor Home)



The color codes on the wires at the fan solenoid are not correct.



If I feed 12V and ground to the fan soleniod the fan slows down right away, remove the 12 v and it speeds up.

This is the fan solenoid



It control hydraulic pressure to the fan





Gillig supplied the sensor location.



Wire color codes are correct here. But the wires leading into the harness at the fan solenoid are different.

If I supply 12v to the yellow and ground to the black nothing happens.

I have posed these questions to Gillig and to you.


1) Questions
a) Would you locate and send the circuit diagram for my 1997 Motor Home on a 1996 chassis?
Vehicle Vin 46GED1814T1052706
Fleetwood # 720AV5202890
MFD ID # 02890
Chassis date 7/96
b) Is this the correct sensor?
c) I have a trip coming up next week to Bowling Green, can I run the fan all the time?
d) Would you advise me to set up a switch to turn the fan on and off by observing the temperature gauge on the dash until I can figure out what the problem is?
e) Do you have any suggestions on what I should look at?


Ok, I have heard back from Gillig with a new diagram.

Color codes on this diagram are correct.

There is an additional sensor between the coolant temperature sensor and the fan solenoid. (Air Inlet Fan Temp REF 51-15885-000)


I have asked the parts guy, Rick, to give me the location of this sensor, and part availability?

I suspect that as a temporary fix I could tie the Yellow and Red wires running into the Air Inlet Fan Temp together (no cutting, I have the weather pack connectors and can make a shut plug).

The fan should then operate as depicted in the earlier circuit diagram.



I could get this done before the trip to Bowling Green and install the part when I return.

I would feel much better with this working correctly.

I believe this symbol is for a diode, but have forgotten how to read it, I believe the current flows in the direction of the arrow inside the symbol??? Help??? That does not make sense as as there are arrows pointing in both directions.



I have attached the full diagram below
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Old 09-09-2015, 11:05 PM   #704
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Glenn,

About 1/3 of the way down on ehtis page there is a visual aid for diode markings for "flow".

Introduction to Diodes And Rectifiers : Diodes and Rectifiers - Electronics Textbook

Hope that helps.

Ken
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Old 09-10-2015, 05:21 AM   #705
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Since the arrow is pointing away from ground, one might think the purpose of the diode there is to prevent a back current.
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Old 09-10-2015, 06:37 AM   #706
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Since the arrow is pointing away from ground, one might think the purpose of the diode there is to prevent a back current.
I thought I had this, in this diagram the arrow is pointing away from ground, wouldn't that be a short? The yellow wire comes from the back of the alternator, into the coolant sensor, than to the to the air temp sensor, then to the fan solenoid



Black appears to be ground.

it is jumpered in the harness at the coolant sensor.



I do understand that electrons flow from negative to positive
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Old 09-10-2015, 08:47 PM   #707
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Glen , my Eagle ( Spartan Chassis) the fan is always running as well. It runs slow when the engine is cool and speeds up and slows down as needed...at least I assume it does as it never runs hot. But with the engine running I have never seen the fan not running. Are you sure that the fan should not run at all with the engine cold?


2001 American Eagle 40 US 8.9 ISL, towing 1999 Cherokee or 2008 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 with Polaris RZR in the back.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:12 PM   #708
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Glenn, would it be correct to say pointing away from ground would prevent any bleed to ground through that diode from the circuit?
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:49 PM   #709
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Glen , my Eagle ( Spartan Chassis) the fan is always running as well. It runs slow when the engine is cool and speeds up and slows down as needed...at least I assume it does as it never runs hot. But with the engine running I have never seen the fan not running. Are you sure that the fan should not run at all with the engine cold?


2001 American Eagle 40 US 8.9 ISL, towing 1999 Cherokee or 2008 GMC Sierra 1500 4x4 with Polaris RZR in the back.
When idling the fan never really runs full bore.

If I bump the RPMs up to a 1,000 the fan runs full bore all the time. If I supply 12 volts to the fan solenoid it slows down to "idle" speed.

Tomorrow I will jump the red and black wires at the air inlet temp sensor and see if the fan slows down.

I feel strongly that it will. I have supplied 12 volts to the yellow wire at the coolant temp sensor and ground to the black wire and the fan did not slow down.

That tells me the circuit is interrupted between the temp sensor and the fan solenoid.

The diagram I was originally working from did not show that sensor, but I suspected there was something between as the wire codes were not right at the fan sensor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stkt View Post
Glenn, would it be correct to say pointing away from ground would prevent any bleed to ground through that diode from the circuit?
I received this explanation on the other forum from DrewE
"That is the symbol for a diode, though in this case they placed it inside a sort of rough representation of the physical package its in. The actual diode symbol is the black triangle with the line at its apex in the middle of the bigger symbol. Current flows when the triangle end (the anode) is more positive than the line end (the cathode) and does not flow the other way around. (Technically, the anode must be more positive than the cathode by whatever the forward voltage of the diode is, which depends on its exact design and materials. Somewhere in the vicinity of half a volt is typical.)

In this circuit, the diode is almost certainly being used as a snubber for the solenoid's coil, to keep the voltage and current spikes that it produces when it is switched off from propagating back to the switches in the sensors and other connected circuitry. You can pretty much ignore it in analyzing the circuitry. Note that it is oriented such that it only conducts when the red wire is negative with respect to chassis ground, so it's reverse biased (not conducting) in the normal steady-state modes of operation, assuming these are typical 12V circuits."

I do not fully understand it, but pick up the advice
"You can pretty much ignore it in analyzing the circuitry."

I do understand the meaning in this statement.
"In this circuit, the diode is almost certainly being used as a snubber for the solenoid's coil"

I do not know if your statement
"would it be correct to say pointing away from ground would prevent any bleed to ground through that diode from the circuit?"
is correct.

If you read above
"Current flows when the triangle end (the anode) is more positive than the line end (the cathode) and does not flow the other way around"

Has me confused, how can ground be more positive?
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Old 09-11-2015, 06:10 AM   #710
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DrewE gave us very good information. Jumping the wires at the air inlet sensor will certainly provide additional info. Please post results.
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Old 09-11-2015, 04:27 PM   #711
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DrewE gave us very good information. Jumping the wires at the air inlet sensor will certainly provide additional info. Please post results.

What me post results, that would never happen.

Ok...I'm sure everyone is waiting with batted breath.

I did find the Air Inlet Temperature Sensor



and it did have the correct color coded wires.

I have said this before, I love weather pack connectors, you can make up what ever you need, they can be taken apart and rebuild another way. In this case I needed to connect the red and yellow wires to test if the Air Inlet Temperature Sensor was the problem.

This is the shut plug I made up.



And now for the test, I fired up the engine with the sensor unplugged, the fan ran full speed, I plugged in my shut plug and the fan slowed right down.

Success.



So now is the question will the fan run up to speed when the coolant reaches 195?

Strangely enough I cannot answer that.

I ran the engine at 1,500 RPM for 30 minutes and the temperature gauge never went above 170. I let it run while I greased every grease fitting under the Motor Home, still never went above 170. I loaded the Motor Home with stuff for our trip to Bowling Green, still did not go above 170.

I took the Motor Home for a drive all the way around the outer loop of Rochester (30 miles) still did not go above 170.

I started to suspect the gauge was bad, drove to my home and got an infrared heat gun, and went all over the engine. The highest temperature I got was 175.

I have said in the past this radiator and fan are huge. Apparently on a 75 degree day the fan running at slow speed moves enough air to keep the engine cool.

The real test will come when we drive to Bowling Green pulling the trailer.

It is a simple fix to get the fan to come back on if it does over heat, just remove the shut plug.
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:23 PM   #712
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Great trouble shooting but no conclusion yet .
Mine doesn't have all that stuff - at idle runs slow and at 1800 rpm's it runs fast . But I like my engine @ 190 deg. With that said your system uses less power to cool on demand . Newer technology!
Heading to Charlotte Monday . Keep us posted from Bowling Green. Good Luck !


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Old 09-11-2015, 05:41 PM   #713
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Great trouble shooting but no conclusion yet .
Mine doesn't have all that stuff - at idle runs slow and at 1800 rpm's it runs fast . But I like my engine @ 190 deg. With that said your system uses less power to cool on demand . Newer technology!
Heading to Charlotte Monday . Keep us posted from Bowling Green. Good Luck !


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Keep us up to date on Charlotte. We leave Wednesday, and will do the same.

I need to get the chassis re-certified this spring and I usually come to Indy to do that (through Roo Man). We should try and hook up, maybe go down the track????
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Old 09-11-2015, 05:58 PM   #714
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Anytime !
We'll have dinner and bench race , I seem to be better at that lately
Indy
Me .003 Him .012
Him 8.90 me 8.99 couldn't get there .
Going back to S/Gas 9.90 - air was 3900 ft = next !
We'll cross paths sometime .
Safe Travels


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