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02-20-2018, 06:52 PM
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#1
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Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 43
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Start Generator when plugged in?
Hi, we have a 1996 Bounder. We are plugged into the pedestal and I was wondering if I can start the generator at the same time I’m plugged in. Is there any danger in doing this? My mechanic was explaining why not to do this. He talked about the contact in the transfer box that it not good to do this. Does this make sense to anyone?
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02-20-2018, 06:58 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: On the open road
Posts: 719
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If you have an automatic transfer switch I would not hesitate doing that. I would make sure you don't have any high current 120 volt load on during the start and transfer. I do this every month to excessive my generator. I add the load to the generator after it starts and about 5 minuets after the transfer,
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2014 Winnebago Tour 42QD
2014 Honda CRV Toad W7REP
WiFiRanger Elite AC Pack
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02-20-2018, 07:05 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Foretravel Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Home is Where WE PARK IT...
Posts: 6,007
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The problem with having the shore power and the generator running at the same time.... is that the transfer switch gets confused as to which power source it is to be using..therefor it jumps back and forth between the two power sources...not good and can fry(arc) the contact points of the transfer switch... been there and dun that..spendy
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Retired truckdriver,
'02 Foretravel... "This Shack will do"
being pushed by an '06 Scion xB
SKP's of Box Elder, South Dakota
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02-20-2018, 07:08 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,296
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With anything mechanical, i.e., automatic transfer switch, the possibility of a malfunction always exists. When I exercise my generator once a month, and I'm plugged in to shore power, I turn the generator circuit breakers OFF before starting it.
I then disconnect from shore power and turn the generator circuit breakers ON. I don't want to take the chance of damage should the transfer switch malfunction.
However it's your call.
Best of luck and safe travels...
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Jim & SherrySeward
2000 Residency 3790 v10 w/tags 5 Star tune & Banks system Suzuki XL7 toad
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02-20-2018, 07:09 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,643
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Mechanic gave you good advice.
IF you logically think about it.......generator power would be used WHEN shore power was NOT available
So when wanting to exercise/swap power do it when the other source is not present.
Easier on the contacts/relays in transfer switch.
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Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
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02-20-2018, 07:18 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 2,807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saddlesore
The problem with having the shore power and the generator running at the same time.... is that the transfer switch gets confused as to which power source it is to be using..therefor it jumps back and forth between the two power sources...not good and can fry(arc) the contact points of the transfer switch... been there and dun that..spendy
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The transfer switch doesn't get "confused", they are engineered to give precedence to the generator if both sources are available. The only reason it would "jump back and forth" is if it was defective, bad, or had a problem.
Or if the generator had a problem that caused the output voltage to go down significantly when a load was applied, which may cause the transfer switch to go back to shore power.
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02-20-2018, 07:21 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Foretravel Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Home is Where WE PARK IT...
Posts: 6,007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfryman
The transfer switch doesn't get "confused", they are engineered to give precedence to the generator if both sources are available. The only reason it would "jump back and forth" is if it was defective, bad, or had a problem.
Or if the generator had a problem that caused the output voltage to go down significantly when a load was applied, which may cause the transfer switch to go back to shore power.
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$700 to learn my lesson.
__________________
Retired truckdriver,
'02 Foretravel... "This Shack will do"
being pushed by an '06 Scion xB
SKP's of Box Elder, South Dakota
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02-20-2018, 07:33 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 35,317
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfryman
The transfer switch doesn't get "confused", they are engineered to give precedence to the generator if both sources are available. The only reason it would "jump back and forth" is if it was defective, bad, or had a problem.
Or if the generator had a problem that caused the output voltage to go down significantly when a load was applied, which may cause the transfer switch to go back to shore power.
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And if it went back to shore power, it would stay there for the 30 seconds that transfer switchs wait before transferring to generator power.
The call it Automatic, because it is.
Your Inverter has an automatic transfer switch, do you power that down when switching ?
If you have a large shop compressor, do you switch off the breaker before the pressure drops and it comes on ? It uses the same contacts.
If your going to run back and forth flipping breakers ( which are NOT switchs ), you may as will take the thing out and plug the cord into a generator outlet, like the old days.
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02-20-2018, 08:40 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: North East Florida
Posts: 1,994
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I don't know what they were doing back in 1996 but I have done it many times with no problem. My transfer switch has a built in time delay and the EMS delays the heavy loads for several minutes after switch over. Newer coaches are pretty much people proof.
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2019 Horizon 42Q
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02-21-2018, 05:35 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 8,638
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Why would you? Take just a second to unplug and not worry about something burning up.
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2007 Fleetwood Revolution LE 40V
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02-21-2018, 07:24 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 6,909
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I take the middle road.
The transfer switch is built to work with both sources present. So I say, let it do its work.
However, it doesn't pay to drag a large current across the contacts as they open and close.
So, I make sure there are no large loads on the AC system when I start the generator while plugged into shore power. Then, once the generator and transfer switch are on line (and working correctly), I'll add large loads as needed. I do the reverse when going back to shore power.
This seems consistent with the generator test procedure I've read in both of our coach's manuals. I figure if it works for testing, it works in "real use" the same way.
Per "twinboat's" admonition, "no circuit breakers were harmed (by treating them as switches) in this process."
Now, about the saying "The only thing you find in the middle of the road is roadkill," maybe so, maybe so...
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Mark
2008 Holiday Rambler Admiral 30PDD (Ford F-53 chassis)
2009 Honda Fit Sport
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02-21-2018, 02:28 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 821
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As stated before the system, if installed and working correctly the system will SENSE for AC voltage. It looks for the Genset FIRST then the Shore Power SECOND and if the line CONDITION voltage level of either is correct, the system selects the power source. If the genset is running it will select the Genset regardless if shore power is present.
But to get back to the question, All you need to do is turn off shore power pedestal circuit breaker, nothing to unplug then start the genset, let it run for a few minutes, then add some loads like the AC. Monitor the amp draw. Let it run for 15-30 minutes and shut the genset down. Then turn the breaker back on at the pedestal Good Luck!
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John & Debbie
2008 Fleetwood Discovery 40X
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02-21-2018, 02:36 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Jacksonville, Fl
Posts: 3,542
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The only thing I'd add is that if your goal is to exercise then generator then uplug the shore cord. That's easiest way that you really know for SURE that the generator is making power. If you have the shore cord plugged in then all you really know is that the generator is running and you have 120 volt power - it COULD be coming from the shore cord.
Otherwise I'm one of the folks that will start the generator with the shore cord plugged in, but I make sure all heavy draw loads (AC, hot water heater) are turned off before I do.
Typically if I'm going to be driving and running the generator then I'll turn off heavy loads, start the generator, wait for the transfer switch to 'clunk' over, unplug the shore cord then turn on whatever it is I want to be running.
That way when I pull out of the driveway everything is set the way I want it to be (except of course for whatever it is I forgot - but that's a different issue).
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2013 Winnebago Sightseer 36V
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02-21-2018, 02:47 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: western NC mountains!
Posts: 4,106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tfryman
The transfer switch doesn't get "confused", they are engineered to give precedence to the generator if both sources are available. The only reason it would "jump back and forth" is if it was defective, bad, or had a problem.
Or if the generator had a problem that caused the output voltage to go down significantly when a load was applied, which may cause the transfer switch to go back to shore power.
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yes, agreed... the ATS's job is to do exactly that - SWITCH from one power source to another .... the reason is DOES switch to Generator even when Shore Power is present, is because it is built to 'default' to generator power.... otherwise you WOULD have big problems - It HAS to know which power source to use when both are present. While I might want it the other way around, I'm sure that there are several electrical and engineering reasons why the 'default' is to the Generator.
and, I'll also add the question of WHY some of us choose to 'remove' most loads BEFORE we let the ATS do it's job? I don't understand...well, I DO understand some of the 'load' concerns across the contacts, but aren't the contacts built and designed just for that?
The reason why I question it is this: My Magnum AGS automatic generator starter is designed to start the generator either for low battery Voltage(to recharge the batteries), OR, to start it when a preset Temperature is reached(to START either or both of the Air Conditioners)... now, both of these air conditioner thermostats must already be set on 'ON' so that when the AGS kicks on the generator, it then allows the AC units to start, sometimes both at the same time. So, conversely, when the Generator is told by the AGS to shut down, it does so WHILE both AC units are under 'load'.... Does this somehow 'challenge' the ATS when it switches? It's designed to do this - should I somehow try to limit this? I say no. I say let the electronics and switches do what they are there to do.
enjoy : )
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